Paris Shootings and Explosions Kill Over 100, Police Say • Hacker News Board

Re: Paris Shootings and Explosions Kill Over 100, Police Say

#401

Post by TeMPOraL » Sat, Nov 14, 2015, 4:15 AM UTC

jacquesm wrote: post #303

scrollaway wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree, I hope my comment was not misinterpreted. Most muslims believe in "do no harm", and every single one I've talked to thinks those terrorists are the exact opposite of true muslims. Those attacks done "in the name of islam" create islamophobic reactions from people. Media spreads this islamophobia further, to people who just trust whatever they see on TV. The climate grows to marginalize muslims further. The o…

> HN is still a sane place but what % of the population does that really represent? I think that the level of HN is rare online but offline things are much better (at least, in my experience). > And it's not like you wouldn't ever get downvoted here. There's a lot of people who believe in the direct "more immigrants = more terrorists" idiocy. So talk to them and stand your ground. Sure there will always be jerks but…

> I think that the level of HN is rare online but offline things are much better (at least, in my experience).

Maybe you choose your surroundings better, but one of the reasons I like hanging out here is because I can experience some semblance of sanity that, from my point of view, GenPop is lacking. I know few people who try to understand what's going on, but rest just repeat whatever they read on the news.

> Yes, please. But I fear that won't happen in my lifetime, maybe in yours depending on your age. This took decades to fuck up it will take decades to restore and a completely different approach.

Yes, please. But let it please not end in the collapse of what we've achieved as humanity. That's what I'm afraid the most - that at some point those tensions will explode and bring down civilization with them. The world is a fucked up place, but we're at the point in history in which we must fix it, not reboot it.

Re: Paris Shootings and Explosions Kill Over 100, Police Say

#402

Post by Kequc » Sat, Nov 14, 2015, 4:16 AM UTC

TeMPOraL wrote: post #389

jmspring wrote: post #13

The repeated attacks, heavy immigration of refugees...I'm hoping for the best, but I feel like there is a powder keg here. Whether or not it is based in any fact, how this is handled and plays out is a serious concern.

I am afraid. Seriously. I'm scared about my life and life of my family, and the civilization we enjoy in Europe. There was a lot of mess already with the current immigration crisis. Now add that attack, and like you said, it's a powder keg, except I'm afraid that this shooting may have just lit the fuse. People will be connecting those two issues. They already are, judging from things that start popping up on my Face…

You had me for the first line. But then you clarified throughout the rest of your post that the reason you are scared is that you are afraid of the west. Can you bend over any further backwards, in any way at all, would that be possible.

Re: Paris Shootings and Explosions Kill Over 100, Police Say

#403

Post by peu4000 » Sat, Nov 14, 2015, 4:16 AM UTC

asadlionpk wrote: post #315

cryptica wrote: post #137

This soils the reputation of islam. I know some good people (muslims) who suffer from prejudice on a daily basis because of attacks like these. Being a muslim in a foreign country is an increasingly difficult and isolating experience.

Being a muslim in a foreign country, I confirm. I don't know why but I feel scared/guilty when something like this happens. It's sad they have to use Islam's name to do this when my interpretation (of Islam) is exactly the opposite.

I, and I hope most others, lay blame at the feet of those who committed the act. I(a nobody) think I've been too quiet about defending our Muslim friends from being lumped in with bad people just because you share a religion.

I don't know many Muslims and it's just too easy to let bigoted remarks go, but this attack feels like it could really bring out the worst in reactionary people. So stay safe and know at least one person has your back.

Re: Paris Shootings and Explosions Kill Over 100, Police Say

#404

Post by mikeash » Sat, Nov 14, 2015, 4:16 AM UTC

TeMPOraL wrote: post #391

mikeash wrote: post #387

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, and they should be kept to Facebook and news article comment sections where they belong, not brought preemptively here.

Fair enough. But it doesn't change the fact that general population will say these things, and it's them, not HN crowd, that shapes policy. I am seriously, true to God, afraid of what's going to happen now - afraid of overreaction of people and governments.

I just want to see intelligent discourse, whatever the topic may be. Preemptively stating some nonsense before the people who believe it can get there hurts discourse just as much as when it's stated for real.

Re: Paris Shootings and Explosions Kill Over 100, Police Say

#405

Post by davesque » Sat, Nov 14, 2015, 4:19 AM UTC

rezashirazian wrote: post #77

This is scary. This was a well coordinated attack that usually create a lot of chatter before hand. Unlike lone wolf attacks these are somewhat easier to detect. The French intelligence and counter terrorism units are either not doing their best or these terrorist are getting much better at covering their tracks.

I don't think that's an effective attitude to take in response to events like this. The job of intelligence agencies is to minimize the risk of attacks like this, not to eliminate it. The more governments think they can actually eliminate the risk, the more we all suffer.

Re: Paris Shootings and Explosions Kill Over 100, Police Say

#406

Post by m_mueller » Sat, Nov 14, 2015, 4:19 AM UTC

ianamartin wrote: post #342

livatlantis wrote: post #100

In Paris right now. We are in shock. At both the scale and the extremely coordinated nature of the attacks on civilians at multiple locations. I work near rue Bichat and Le Petit Cambodge, a warm little restaurant in the 10e that my colleagues and I frequent, where people were tonight killed. The Bataclan is a well-known concert venue for metal bands, where I've seen several bands play live. Les Halles is at the cent…

You have thoughts and good wishes coming from NYC and from Texas. I'm in New York; my dad is in Texas. My dad is a WW2 veteran. He fought on the front lines of Normandy Beach, The Battle of France, and Liege, among other places like the Battle of the Bulge. He was housed in France by people there who welcomed and supported him. He was assisted by the underground resistance. He has an enormous amount of love for the F…

I'm neither French nor American nor a particularly emotional person, but your post made me tear up. We Europeans all need to be more thankful for people like your father who fought a war on foreign soil to protect a foreign culture.

Re: Paris Shootings and Explosions Kill Over 100, Police Say

#407

Post by ausjke » Sat, Nov 14, 2015, 4:19 AM UTC

This will only get worse over time, in Europe and in US, more so in Europe as Europe is frankly slowly Muslimized(by 2050 they may become majority). It's the new reality. Western culture is under serious attack and the system is not designed to cope with terrorism like this _at_all_.

Without security, talking about freedom is meaningless.

Re: Paris Shootings and Explosions Kill Over 100, Police Say

#408

Post by deciplex » Sat, Nov 14, 2015, 4:20 AM UTC

davesque wrote: post #395

deciplex wrote: post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed. The moderation in this thread has been supremely disappointing. Your post contained no slurs, only an interpretation of data along with a link.

No. What dang quoted was a slur. Definition from http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/us/definition/american_eng... : "An insinuation or allegation about someone that is likely to insult them or damage their reputation" Saying that "Islam soils the reputation of islam" is a slur by any reasonable interpretation. The link provided some information but the first sentence did nothing to that effect and was simply inflammat…

This wasn't a mere insinuation, this was a claim made along with some study linked in support of the claim. And since the topic at hand is precisely Islam's reputation in the first place, it seems we can't have any conversation about Islam's reputation for violence (deserved or not), and what to do about it, at all.

If your goal is to integrate Muslims living in Western nations into Western society, what is going on here is not helping to achieve it.

Re: Paris Shootings and Explosions Kill Over 100, Police Say

#409

Post by TeMPOraL » Sat, Nov 14, 2015, 4:20 AM UTC

Turing_Machine wrote: post #370

jameshart wrote: post #355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The refugees who have travelled to Europe to seek asylum are disproportionately young and male. Because if you have a family group in a refugee camp in Turkey, you don't send your grandmother to take a dangerous boatride across the Med and then traipse around the countryside of the Balkans trying to find a way to get to talk to a German government official about the possibility of making an asylum application for you…

If I had a wife, grandmother, kids, etc. in a dangerous war zone or refugee camp, there is no way in hell that I would leave them behind. Not gonna happen.

Oh you would, if that was the only way to ensure survival and/or a better future for them. It would be painful, but you would feel you have to do this.

Re: Paris Shootings and Explosions Kill Over 100, Police Say

#410

Post by TeMPOraL » Sat, Nov 14, 2015, 4:21 AM UTC

jameshart wrote: post #355

robbiep wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not European but travelling in Asia at the moment. Have had a couple of discussions with run-of-the-mill Europeans concerned that the refugees areproportionally made up much more of young men than women/children with the implication that these guys are up to no good. I'd say the subtleties of the humanitarian crisis is going to be lost on the average European Joe in the wake of this

The refugees who have travelled to Europe to seek asylum are disproportionately young and male. Because if you have a family group in a refugee camp in Turkey, you don't send your grandmother to take a dangerous boatride across the Med and then traipse around the countryside of the Balkans trying to find a way to get to talk to a German government official about the possibility of making an asylum application for you…

Exactly. Tried to explain that to people many times, and they didn't listen when it was just about refugees. They sure as hell are not gonna listen now.