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Tesla shares dive after Consumer Reports yanks recommendation for Model S

latimes.com

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Re: Tesla shares dive after Consumer Reports yanks recommendation for Model S

#141

Post by marvin »

hugh4 wrote: post #62
ssharp wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Tesla is less priced for perfection and more priced for the future. Investors expect Tesla to eventually surpass companies like BMW, across the board for each model. By betting on Tesla, they're betting on Tesla being the dominating player in electric vehicles as well as electric vehicles dominating ICE vehicles in passenger categories. I also think the price includes things like their rapidly improving batte…

How rational is it to bet on Tesla continuing to dominate the electric car market once the electric car market becomes mainstream? There are much, much bigger players waiting on the sidelines for market conditions to change.

They'll have to build some billion-dollar battery factories first. (Or someone else must). This will take some 5 years per factory, so that's a clear leading indicator. Also, most new cars will be electric in 20 years, and that's a lot of cars.

Re: Tesla shares dive after Consumer Reports yanks recommendation for Model S

#142

Post by DavidAdams »

r00fus wrote: post #117
bri3d wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From watching a few friends own Teslas, it seems that they offer a superior repair and maintenance experience to many German car dealers, which helps with owner satisfaction in the face of reliability issues. It certainly doesn't bode well for Tesla's attempt to move to high-volume, lower-margin production, though.

Tesla is in Apple's position about 10-15 years ago. Apple had a solid product (a machine that ran OSX), a loyal fanbase, and great support ratings. They did eventually translate their brand value to mass-market dominance, but only through sidestepping into other markets using iPod and then iPhone. I wonder if that analogy fits for Tesla?

Now we're doing reverse car analogies, comparing cars to operating systems instead of vice versa.

Re: Tesla shares dive after Consumer Reports yanks recommendation for Model S

#143

Post by IanCal »

cjensen wrote: post #52
derekp7 wrote: post #11

Seeing as how the battery system is primarily what makes electric cars expensive, I really wish automakers would start delivering plugin hybrids that have, say 75 - 100 mile range on battery (to keep cost down), along with a very low horsepower gas engine. (Most plugin hybrids give you about 20 - 30 miles on battery). The way it would work: the battery would drive the front wheels, and you would use the battery for m…

Your suggested configuration has very big downsides. Basically, your config would be an electric car which carries around a complete internal combustion engine, gas tank, and exhaust system just in case it runs out of battery. For simple commutes and around town, you'd be better off jettisoning the weight and cost and getting a slightly bigger battery. The hybrid car as originally conceived is genius: Small and effic…

> For simple commutes and around town, you'd be better off jettisoning the weight and cost and getting a slightly bigger battery

I think the general desire for a plugin-hybrid is for the longer journeys so you don't need two cars.

> Trying to combine the benefits of all-electric with a hybrid is questionable.

It's a tricky trade-off but it's an interesting comparison.

For example, a 50 mile range may actually cover 80% of my travelling and so I could have a small battery and then use gas for the rest of the journeys. I don't need a 200 mile battery to get me up to 95% of my journeys.

It'll depend heavily on your actual variation on use though.

Re: Tesla shares dive after Consumer Reports yanks recommendation for Model S

#144

Post by toomuchtodo »

recursive wrote: post #140
toomuchtodo wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At 25% margins, they can afford to keep it up long enough.

Is that high or low?

Pretty high for a car company (typical margins are under 10%).

http://www.statista.com/statistics/280346/ebit-margin-of-the...

http://marketrealist.com/2015/02/intense-competition-leads-l...

Re: Tesla shares dive after Consumer Reports yanks recommendation for Model S

#145

Post by lttlrck »

beeboop wrote: post #69
tdees40 wrote: post #48

I had a conversation with a (recently-departed) Tesla mechanic the other day (who has had experience working with every other type of car), and he said, "I knew every Tesla owner in the tri-state area on a first-name basis. Everything breaks." He did say that it's getting better with the newer models.

Everything breaks on other cars, too. I am not really sure what you're getting at with this comment. A mechanic sees nothing but broken cars.

mechanics generally do not see the all the cars in a given local area time and time again except for regular servicing.

Re: Tesla shares dive after Consumer Reports yanks recommendation for Model S

#146

Post by nerfhammer »

r00fus wrote: post #117
bri3d wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From watching a few friends own Teslas, it seems that they offer a superior repair and maintenance experience to many German car dealers, which helps with owner satisfaction in the face of reliability issues. It certainly doesn't bode well for Tesla's attempt to move to high-volume, lower-margin production, though.

Tesla is in Apple's position about 10-15 years ago. Apple had a solid product (a machine that ran OSX), a loyal fanbase, and great support ratings. They did eventually translate their brand value to mass-market dominance, but only through sidestepping into other markets using iPod and then iPhone. I wonder if that analogy fits for Tesla?

One difference is Tesla stock is already priced as if they had already won the wider market.

Re: Tesla shares dive after Consumer Reports yanks recommendation for Model S

#147

Post by tempestn »

anxman wrote: post #119
vesrah wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right there with you. <3000mi on the car and the drive unit needed to be replaced, the front left strut area makes a popping when turning the wheel, and I can hear something flapping while driving.

My 2013 P85 was in for service 4 times before the alignment was fixed correctly. Sticky sunroof. Rattles. 12v battery failure causing full system failure. Motor replacement. Charge port battery broke. 2014 P85D: Total vehicle failure at 218 miles on the odometer. Front motor replaced. Rear motor milling failure. Rear motor replacement again as part incompatible with Autopilot. That all being said, the service is pain…

Painless if there's a service center nearby. This is all making me seriously reconsider buying one when I'd have to travel to get it serviced...

Re: Tesla shares dive after Consumer Reports yanks recommendation for Model S

#148

Post by razster »

pasta_2 wrote: post #123
toddmorey wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hear you, but it's important to note that it appears that Mercedes (a storied German luxury car with proven technology) currently has an even a lower reliability rating. That makes me think it's likely more than just company age and experience, I think there is something about a company's risk tolerance and how it relates to their eagerness to implement new tech. As the article states, the blander "appliance-like"…

Tesla has a small rabid fan base (here and on Reddit) that are willing to overlook its shortcomings. If Tesla actually delivers on its Model 3 any time soon and manages to penetrate the mainstream at all, you can be sure those customers won't be giving Tesla a pass. https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/comments/3mtoxa/im_not_... Take a look at that thread in /r/teslamotors (which is full of Tesla fanboys). Tesla's pr…

I own stock in the company but not anywhere near an owner of their cars, but my fan-boyism is based on the fact that this company is trying to push other larger car manufacturers into pushing forward instead of the same old same. Yeah they have some issues but they're quick at ironing them out on the new set of cars.

If and when the Model 3 releases will be the telling for Tesla. For now I will keep my stock.

Re: Tesla shares dive after Consumer Reports yanks recommendation for Model S

#149

Post by razster »

agumonkey wrote: post #139
Lightbody wrote: post #20

I got my P85 in July 2013 and I can absolutely confirm what Consumer Reports is saying. My car has (and continues) to have all sorts of small fit-and-finish issues. While I've never had a drivetrain issue or any major problem, I have had some wireless and door handle issues that required as new Master Control Unit. Sadly, the work replacing the MCU introduced even more squeaks in the dashboard area :( That all said:…

I suspect other high end brands don't have fit-and-finish issues, but is it true or just brand distortion field ? any actual bmw / mercedes owner ?

My 2014 Fiat has started to turn into a rattle can. It is expected of these cars from what I've read. But considering I get 40+mpg, I'm fine with it rattling down the road.

Re: Tesla shares dive after Consumer Reports yanks recommendation for Model S

#150

Post by dragontamer »

crabasa wrote: post #122
dragontamer wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except those uses of energy are better solved by Redox-flow batteries, Compressed Air Energy Storage (CAES), or pumped hydro. http://energy.gov/oe/services/technology-development/energy-... A single $5 Billion pumped-hydro plant can store 30 Gigawatt-hours of energy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bath_County_Pumped_Storage_Sta... The energy demands of this country will be met by utility companies and their massive in…

I'm sorry if I gave you the impression that Telsa is competing with utilities to store energy at scale . I meant storing energy for personal use (vehicles/homes/etc). They will certainly source all of their energy from said utility companies.

The large scale energy use projects are leveraged by personal users however.

If you have net-metering, then you sell your energy back to the grid. I mean, California's energy situation sucks (and will continue to suck until they build some large-scale energy storage solutions). But the majority of the country can just use net-metering... sell the energy back to the grid and get all the benefits of stored energy without actually having to buy Tesla's Batteries.

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