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Tesla shares dive after Consumer Reports yanks recommendation for Model S

latimes.com

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Re: Tesla shares dive after Consumer Reports yanks recommendation for Model S

#121

Post by ZeroGravitas »

thewopr wrote: post #105
ZeroGravitas wrote: post #98

Oddly, I was just thinking the other day about how Tesla had a reputation for being a bit prototype-y but I hadn't heard anything about it recently, so I concluded they'd massively improved. Based on this they're better, but still not great. Was it not Consumer Reports that had a string of issues with their first model S, or was that another car magazine?

Are you thinking about the NY times article? http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/10/automobiles/stalled-on-the...

No, I remember that as well, but there was someone that had the car and liked it but needed to get lots of parts replaced. Edmund's maybe? Yes that was it:

http://www.edmunds.com/tesla/model-s/2013/long-term-road-tes...

Re: Tesla shares dive after Consumer Reports yanks recommendation for Model S

#122

Post by crabasa »

dragontamer wrote: post #116
blisterpeanuts wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, it's starting to look as though the cars are merely a shell for the very profitable batteries they're going to be cranking out in Nevada. Perhaps the whole Tesla car idea was a buyout play -- get established, build a name, then sell the whole thing to GM for $30 billion. Once the battery plant has economies of scale, they'll be fueling a whole new generation of electric vehicles by other makers, perhaps includin…

Except those uses of energy are better solved by Redox-flow batteries, Compressed Air Energy Storage (CAES), or pumped hydro. http://energy.gov/oe/services/technology-development/energy-... A single $5 Billion pumped-hydro plant can store 30 Gigawatt-hours of energy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bath_County_Pumped_Storage_Sta... The energy demands of this country will be met by utility companies and their massive in…

I'm sorry if I gave you the impression that Telsa is competing with utilities to store energy at scale. I meant storing energy for personal use (vehicles/homes/etc). They will certainly source all of their energy from said utility companies.

Re: Tesla shares dive after Consumer Reports yanks recommendation for Model S

#123

Post by pasta_2 »

toddmorey wrote: post #100
pkorzeniewski wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't take the owner satisfaction ratings too seriously, people who buy Tesla cars are mostly rich enthusiasts of new technologies and will quietly deal with a lot of issues before starting to criticize the car. If someone doesn't care about the electric engine, there's really no reason to buy a Tesla - for the same price you can get a much more luxurious german car with proven technology. It's similar to people…

I hear you, but it's important to note that it appears that Mercedes (a storied German luxury car with proven technology) currently has an even a lower reliability rating. That makes me think it's likely more than just company age and experience, I think there is something about a company's risk tolerance and how it relates to their eagerness to implement new tech. As the article states, the blander "appliance-like"…

Tesla has a small rabid fan base (here and on Reddit) that are willing to overlook its shortcomings. If Tesla actually delivers on its Model 3 any time soon and manages to penetrate the mainstream at all, you can be sure those customers won't be giving Tesla a pass.

https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/comments/3mtoxa/im_not_...

Take a look at that thread in /r/teslamotors (which is full of Tesla fanboys). Tesla's problems with quality and reliability are talked about as if that's what they're known for, and the comments are being upvoted (at the same time they're very optimistic about it improving but that's to be expected given its /r/teslamotors).

The problem for Tesla is they are 1990s Apple. A bigger problem for them is if when Apple enters the car market in 2020, they come in as 2015 Apple.

Re: Tesla shares dive after Consumer Reports yanks recommendation for Model S

#124

Post by semi-extrinsic »

VLM wrote: post #112
jkestner wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't forget batteries. Rolls-Royce did well with jet engines, probably better than cars.

Agreed and don't forget licensing. OK so TSLA makes squeeky sunroofs, who cares, they can sell batteries and controllers and motors to ... construction crane companies or something. You know all the weird details of making a tow truck, cool, here's the parts to make it electric. Happens all the time in the automotive industry. The first "american" hatchback car I ever drove had a nice VW engine. Ironically it was som…

Well, Tesla buys their batteries from Panasonic. And the motor is a standard induction motor, not very different from what the actual (Nikolai) Tesla invented back in 1887. I agree that their control system is going to be fairly complicated, since induction motors require the AC frequency to be a function of the torque as well as the RPM.

But then most applications outside "quick 0-60 pure electric car" use brushless DC motors instead, where the controllers are simpler. Even the insane McLaren P1 hybrid, which eats Teslas for breakfast, uses a brushless DC motor. So I'm not sure there is as much of a market for Tesla's expertise as you'd think.

Re: Tesla shares dive after Consumer Reports yanks recommendation for Model S

#125

Post by icebraining »

joosters wrote: post #75
awqrre wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know about all the other technology but the electric motor(s) should be much more reliable then the conventional combustion drivetrain

Eventually, yes. But internal combustion engines have a head start spanning decades of fixes and reliability improvements.

And electric engines don't? Even in cars, HEVs have been popular for twenty years (since the release of the Prius); and diesel-electric powertrains have been the standard in many vehicles since before the Model T.

Around here, we've had electric vehicles climbing our hills every day for over 100 years: https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=lisbon+tram

Re: Tesla shares dive after Consumer Reports yanks recommendation for Model S

#126

Post by toomuchtodo »

pkorzeniewski wrote: post #64
bri3d wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From watching a few friends own Teslas, it seems that they offer a superior repair and maintenance experience to many German car dealers, which helps with owner satisfaction in the face of reliability issues. It certainly doesn't bode well for Tesla's attempt to move to high-volume, lower-margin production, though.

Tesla has no other choice than to offer the best customer experience - otherwise they wouldn't stand a chance on the market as a new player. The question is how long will they keep it up?

At 25% margins, they can afford to keep it up long enough.

Re: Tesla shares dive after Consumer Reports yanks recommendation for Model S

#127

Post by trhway »

ZeroGravitas wrote: post #30
derekp7 wrote: post #11

Seeing as how the battery system is primarily what makes electric cars expensive, I really wish automakers would start delivering plugin hybrids that have, say 75 - 100 mile range on battery (to keep cost down), along with a very low horsepower gas engine. (Most plugin hybrids give you about 20 - 30 miles on battery). The way it would work: the battery would drive the front wheels, and you would use the battery for m…

An internal combustion engine which purely charges the battery seems to be the way things will go in the future, like the current BMW i3 with optional "range extender". Though inertia will keep various other hybrid designs available in the near term.

the issue is that current ICE range extenders in plugins are still those old ICEs originally designed to drive the wheels and thus there are inherent trade-offs decreasing efficiency. What you want is an ICE designed for efficiency. You can hit 50%+ efficiency if you design for it.

Re: Tesla shares dive after Consumer Reports yanks recommendation for Model S

#128

Post by toomuchtodo »

petersellers wrote: post #106
brianstorms wrote: post #82

My 2013 Model S has had its share of issues. My car is on its third drivetrain. Am I unhappy about it? Nope. Was it a hassle? A little. Was it a show-stopper? Nope. Did Tesla always take care of the issues to my satisfaction? Absolutely. Would I buy another Tesla? Not only YES but I cannot imagine ever buying anything else ever again. Tesla's huge weakness continues to be communication between company and customer. T…

As someone who typically drives cars outside of their warranty period, I don't understand the lack of concern about reliability after your 3rd drivetrain. I suppose if you are leasing the car that is one thing, but with that kind of warranty work I would be extremely hesitant to buy a used Tesla.

The Model S powertrain warranty is 8 years/infinite miles.

Re: Tesla shares dive after Consumer Reports yanks recommendation for Model S

#129

Post by aetherson »

Overtonwindow wrote: post #72
kpwagner wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The number is zero. Any more than that would be a serious scandal--can't imagine that would be legal. Market manipulation is a pretty serious crime ever since the days of Jay Gould.

I'm not so sure, remember when it was perfectly legal for members of Congress and their staff to use information gained through their jobs to make stock purchases? I mean this was just a few years ago....

Is it your contention that Congress also created a special exemption for Consumer Reports? That seems like:

a. It credits CR with a lot more power than CR actually has.

b. We would have heard about it before now.

Re: Tesla shares dive after Consumer Reports yanks recommendation for Model S

#130

Post by Overtonwindow »

aetherson wrote: post #129
Overtonwindow wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not so sure, remember when it was perfectly legal for members of Congress and their staff to use information gained through their jobs to make stock purchases? I mean this was just a few years ago....

Is it your contention that Congress also created a special exemption for Consumer Reports? That seems like: a. It credits CR with a lot more power than CR actually has. b. We would have heard about it before now.

I'm not saying that consumer reports did anything wrong, but insider trading or not, it happens. And places we would not expect. Who would've ever thought that members of Congress in their staff would be allowed to do insider trading? Until someone pointed out that it was illegal some years back, it never crossed my mind. I assumed it was illegal
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