A 22-year-old anti-Nazi song tops German charts again – to welcome refugees • Hacker News Board

Re: A 22-year-old anti-Nazi song tops German charts again – to welcome refugees

#71

Post by happyscrappy » Sat, Sep 05, 2015, 2:07 PM UTC

joeyspn wrote: post #62

mineshaftgap wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Holy fuck people get confused. Exactly how are Americans stopping you from voting? You don't think Europe and the US are aligned? Hate can be blinding. Has a there ever been even a single EU candidate that ran on an anti-US platform? If not why not?

> Exactly how are Americans stopping you from voting? Who said “Americans”? I’m just saying “they”, and “they” are the bribed politicians [0] (both in the US and Europe). “They” don’t want us to vote [1] because they know We (the citizens) are not aligned with everything that USA or ANYONE says and does. > Hate can be blinding. Has a there ever been even a single EU candidate that ran on an anti-US platform? LOL, who…

It is clear who tou meant when you said they, but I can see why you want to backtrack. And despite popular confusion it will be voted on so Europeans will have only their own government to blame if it passes.

Re: A 22-year-old anti-Nazi song tops German charts again – to welcome refugees

#72

Post by acqq » Sat, Sep 05, 2015, 2:09 PM UTC

acqq wrote: post #51

return0 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't mind the positive messaging, and to be precise the number of refugees is still small. There are millions that have been driven out of syria in neighboring countries like jordan. However the european media are doing a bad job at telling people the whole story in simple terms about how syria got in this mess and what are the ways to end the crisis where it began (military intervention? who knows). It shouldn't…

> the european media are doing a bad job at telling people the whole story in simple terms about how syria got in this mess The BBC text linked "conveniently" ignores some influential players and even the recent history: Compare: https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/cia-b... The Washington Post, September 11, 2013: "CIA begins weapons delivery to Syrian rebels" And: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isl…

Related, a little better covered: who are the people trying to enter? According to some estimates there are 12 million (!) people who had to flee from the places where they lived just in Syria. More than half of all the people in the country!

Probably out of 4 asylum seekers 2 are from Syria, 1 from Afghanistan and 1 from other areas, often Africa.

Also note that most of the original inhabitants of Syria are very young, as around 25 years ago there were twice as less people there:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Syria

The demographics of Afghanistan is comparable.

Re: A 22-year-old anti-Nazi song tops German charts again – to welcome refugees

#73

Post by acqq » Sat, Sep 05, 2015, 2:19 PM UTC

jpfr wrote: post #33

generic_user wrote: post #11

There is a coordinated media attempt across the EU to spin positive 'messaging' onto the refugee crisis. But make no mistake this is a total disaster for the refugees, member state Citizens and the EU bureaucracy. The EU has been exposed once again as an incompetent overreaching poorly though dangerously romantic mistake. Continuous failures of ECB policy, the collapse of Greece under the EURO, the PIGS in serious tr…

The EU is winning this. It shows that it goes by the humanitarian principles it claims to have. Refugees fleeing from a humanitarian crisis are allowed to stay and to become citizens. People fleeing from a bad economic situation are not. > But make no mistake this is a total disaster for the refugees, member state Citizens and the EU bureaucracy. It's a disaster for the refugees. But the disaster is in Syria. > The d…

>> The EU is winning this. It shows that it goes by the humanitarian principles it claims to have. Refugees fleeing from a humanitarian crisis are allowed to stay and to become citizens. People fleeing from a bad economic situation are not.

Actually the "refugees fleeing from a humanitarian crisis are allowed to stay" only if they manage to cross the borders which EU still works hard to close:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YO0IRsfrPQ4

There is a reason why people must pay the illegal boats to reach Europe across the sea.

Re: A 22-year-old anti-Nazi song tops German charts again – to welcome refugees

#74

Post by rtz12 » Sat, Sep 05, 2015, 2:28 PM UTC

chvid wrote: post #17

generic_user wrote: post #11

There is a coordinated media attempt across the EU to spin positive 'messaging' onto the refugee crisis. But make no mistake this is a total disaster for the refugees, member state Citizens and the EU bureaucracy. The EU has been exposed once again as an incompetent overreaching poorly though dangerously romantic mistake. Continuous failures of ECB policy, the collapse of Greece under the EURO, the PIGS in serious tr…

How is it coordinated?

It does seem to be though. Quite some time ago, there was about a week of articles every day in most German newspapers about refugees doing good things. Like finding money and giving it back and things like this. It was so obvious.

Re: A 22-year-old anti-Nazi song tops German charts again – to welcome refugees

#75

Post by moe » Sat, Sep 05, 2015, 3:03 PM UTC

leaveyou wrote: post #68

moe wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The pair called for a unified EU-wide response including fair distribution of refugees across Europe. We must pursue a European asylum, refugee and migration policy that is founded on the principle of solidarity and our shared values of humanity I don't understand. Which of your quotes "encouraged immigrants to come"? "There is no tolerance for those people who question the dignity of others, no tolerance for those w…

I provided the context and now you argue about the context instead of the main point: Merkel was sending positive messages to mobs of people who were trespassing borders of multiple EU and non-EU countries causing chaos. Refugees or immigrants, illegal immigration is still ILLEGAL. Merkel and her government directly and/or indirectly encouraged illegalities against other countries instead of discouraging them by guid…

I provided the context and now you argue about the context instead of the main point

You provided random quotes, none of which support your "main point".

  "There is no tolerance for those people
   who question the dignity of others"

You quote this and say it's an undue "positive message" to refugees?

Do you even realize that Merkel is addressing people like you in this very quote?

Re: A 22-year-old anti-Nazi song tops German charts again – to welcome refugees

#76

Post by dogma1138 » Sat, Sep 05, 2015, 3:12 PM UTC

moe wrote: post #27

generic_user wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is coordinated in the Press. The EU has its own Press agents that work with all Member state media and the international Press Including the USA. When the global press put a front page picture of a drowned Syrian Child on there covers it is a Coordinated release. Media Messaging is the bread and butter of the News Media. This story is part of Messageing to set the 'tone'.

The EU has its own Press agents that work with all Member state media and the international Press Including the USA. It really hurts to read this kind of drivel on HN. This is not how the press works. "The press" is not an uniform entity. This is not how any of this works. Please take your conspiracy theories elsewhere.

Actually kinda does, the cartels that formed in the late 19th early 20th century are still around, you only have a handful of large news agencies in the world which produce most of wire news.

The Reuters-HAVAS-Wolf EU cartel is still alive and kicking even tho that Wolf's agency was swallowed by the Nazi party in the 30's. Benito Mussolini's Agenzia Stefani is still alive and well as Agenzia Nazionale Stampa Associata (ANSA) which is one of the lading news agencies in the world.

If you look at the big agencies, Reuters HAVAS(AFP), and AP you'll see that they produce the vast majority of news reports that you read today, through their partners and subsidiaries they also own/represent/control/influence/hold hands/what ever with most small scale news agencies in the world including a fair deal of national ones.

Will the BBC do some investigative reporting? yes it will, but the majority of the news that the BBC reports comes from the wire they'll might add some facts to it and some flare but they report it as it is, including in the same way it came through the wire so if there was already an opinion or a tone impressed on it it will be reported as such.

This isn't some conspiracy theory this is reality, it doesn't mean that there's a cabal out there that wants to control everyone with old white men sitting in dark rooms smoking cigars, but it also means that even unintentional influence on the nature of a story gets amplified since that story will be reported 10000 times over, this gets aggravated even more considering that the big news agencies rely almost completely on local resources now so whether it's Gaza, Syria, Ukraine, or DC you'll get local reporters producing news with all the bias which is involved in it that will then be distributed to 10,000's of news outlets in the world and reported as recieved.

Re: A 22-year-old anti-Nazi song tops German charts again – to welcome refugees

#77

Post by omonra » Sat, Sep 05, 2015, 3:15 PM UTC

Asbostos wrote: post #37

Has there ever been a case where a country received too many refugees and its economy deteriorated as a consequence? People provide labor which is what causes economic growth. They're the most valuable thing a country can have if it's not flooded with oil or similar natural resources. Of course there may be a lag as skills don't match demand, but that'll close up over time.

I think the bar 'economy deteriorated' is a high one. The issue rather is failure of migrants to integrate (probably fault of both host nation & migrants themselves) - thus creating ghettos / high crime rate / risk of terrorism.

This is what seems to be happening - for example in France (banlieues, 70% of prison population is muslim, Charlie Hebbo).

Re: A 22-year-old anti-Nazi song tops German charts again – to welcome refugees

#78

Post by moe » Sat, Sep 05, 2015, 3:25 PM UTC

vixen99 wrote: post #52

moe wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The EU has its own Press agents that work with all Member state media and the international Press Including the USA. It really hurts to read this kind of drivel on HN. This is not how the press works. "The press" is not an uniform entity. This is not how any of this works. Please take your conspiracy theories elsewhere.

That the EU has its own Press agents that work with all Member state media and the international Press Including the USA' is simply a truism. Policy emerges from Brussels and is widely reported across the media in Europe and the US. Certainly the EU is heading for political and economic union and to that extent its report of itself is a conspiracy if you want to call it that but it doesn't really meet the definition.…

Curious to know why it hurts!

It hurts because the claim of conformist media (german: "gleichgeschaltete Medien") is a standard neonazi narrative of the dumbest kind.

There is no "coordinated media spin across the EU" because the EU is a conglomerate of 28 nation states, many of which are in strong disagreement about which kind of media spin they would prefer for the current situation.

Look at the mainstream media in Germany, Austria and Hungary and you'll see very different spins and emphasis. The internet makes this very easy to do, there really is no excuse for naive conspiracy theories anymore.

That's democratic choice; offering directives is a tad authoritarian, is it not?

My tolerance towards stupidity ends when it is directed against people who can't defend themselves. In case you missed whose horn generic_user is tooting then I suggest to take a brief glance at his comment history.

Re: A 22-year-old anti-Nazi song tops German charts again – to welcome refugees

#79

Post by dogma1138 » Sat, Sep 05, 2015, 3:30 PM UTC

babuskov wrote: post #44

Meanwhile, Hungary has finished building the wall and is now adding more soldiers to EU-Serbia border and blocking the central train station in Budapest to stop people from going further. http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jun/22/migrants-hungar... http://news.sky.com/story/1544753/migrants-spend-night-outsi...

What I'm wondering about is if Germany and other EU countries don't mind taking the migrants with Merkel pledging to absorb as much as 800,000 of them why did Hungary closed it's rail system? Hungary doesn't want them, they use trains to get to Austria and Germany why close their only effective route to transport them to where they would be apparently accepted?

As some one who loathes conspiracy theories even I'm starting to wonder if Germany is pretty much threatening Hungary to prevent them from releasing the flood into central Europe while declaring that they'll take anyone who gets to Germany to appease voters. Because honestly I don't really see any other explanation to why countries like Hungary and even Italy (which prevents them from getting on trains to Switzerland) actually seem to keep the migrants forcibly within their territory while clearly not wanting them anywhere near it.

Re: A 22-year-old anti-Nazi song tops German charts again – to welcome refugees

#80

Post by tokenadult » Sat, Sep 05, 2015, 3:47 PM UTC

Asbostos wrote: post #37

Has there ever been a case where a country received too many refugees and its economy deteriorated as a consequence? People provide labor which is what causes economic growth. They're the most valuable thing a country can have if it's not flooded with oil or similar natural resources. Of course there may be a lag as skills don't match demand, but that'll close up over time.

This is a very good point. Hong Kong thrived by receiving refugees from the Cultural Revolution in neighboring China. The United States thrived by receiving Jewish refugees from pogroms in the Tsarist Russian empire. In general, receiving refugees and allowing them to settle to become neighbors and business partners of the earlier-arrived population is a very good idea for any territory.