A 22-year-old anti-Nazi song tops German charts again – to welcome refugees • Hacker News Board

Re: A 22-year-old anti-Nazi song tops German charts again – to welcome refugees

#51

Post by acqq » Sat, Sep 05, 2015, 1:06 PM UTC

return0 wrote: post #40

generic_user wrote: post #11

There is a coordinated media attempt across the EU to spin positive 'messaging' onto the refugee crisis. But make no mistake this is a total disaster for the refugees, member state Citizens and the EU bureaucracy. The EU has been exposed once again as an incompetent overreaching poorly though dangerously romantic mistake. Continuous failures of ECB policy, the collapse of Greece under the EURO, the PIGS in serious tr…

I don't mind the positive messaging, and to be precise the number of refugees is still small. There are millions that have been driven out of syria in neighboring countries like jordan. However the european media are doing a bad job at telling people the whole story in simple terms about how syria got in this mess and what are the ways to end the crisis where it began (military intervention? who knows). It shouldn't…

> the european media are doing a bad job at telling people the whole story in simple terms about how syria got in this mess

The BBC text linked "conveniently" ignores some influential players and even the recent history:

Compare:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/cia-b...

The Washington Post, September 11, 2013: "CIA begins weapons delivery to Syrian rebels"

And:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_State_of_Iraq_and_the_...

"The group gained prominence after it drove Iraqi government forces out of key cities in western Iraq in an offensive initiated in early 2014."

Also note, the state as of October 2014:

http://www.quora.com/Where-is-ISIL-getting-their-ammunition

(which refers to: http://www.conflictarm.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/Dispat... )

"Iraqi and Syrian government forces and moderate rebels now face a significant number of ISIL fighters equipped from huge stocks of captured American-made weapons. The report states that the majority of ISIL ammo recovered in Iraq appears traceable to these stocks."

Re: A 22-year-old anti-Nazi song tops German charts again – to welcome refugees

#52

Post by vixen99 » Sat, Sep 05, 2015, 1:06 PM UTC

moe wrote: post #27

generic_user wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is coordinated in the Press. The EU has its own Press agents that work with all Member state media and the international Press Including the USA. When the global press put a front page picture of a drowned Syrian Child on there covers it is a Coordinated release. Media Messaging is the bread and butter of the News Media. This story is part of Messageing to set the 'tone'.

The EU has its own Press agents that work with all Member state media and the international Press Including the USA. It really hurts to read this kind of drivel on HN. This is not how the press works. "The press" is not an uniform entity. This is not how any of this works. Please take your conspiracy theories elsewhere.

That the EU has its own Press agents that work with all Member state media and the international Press Including the USA' is simply a truism. Policy emerges from Brussels and is widely reported across the media in Europe and the US.

Certainly the EU is heading for political and economic union and to that extent its report of itself is a conspiracy if you want to call it that but it doesn't really meet the definition.

Curious to know why it hurts! Btw stuff that arrives on HN that isn't appreciated is normally simply ignored. That's democratic choice; offering directives is a tad authoritarian, is it not?

Re: A 22-year-old anti-Nazi song tops German charts again – to welcome refugees

#53

Post by cabalamat » Sat, Sep 05, 2015, 1:08 PM UTC

Asbostos wrote: post #37

Has there ever been a case where a country received too many refugees and its economy deteriorated as a consequence? People provide labor which is what causes economic growth. They're the most valuable thing a country can have if it's not flooded with oil or similar natural resources. Of course there may be a lag as skills don't match demand, but that'll close up over time.

> Has there ever been a case where a country received too many refugees and its economy deteriorated as a consequence?

One possible example is when the Roman Empire let in a load of Goths in 376.

Re: A 22-year-old anti-Nazi song tops German charts again – to welcome refugees

#54

Post by return0 » Sat, Sep 05, 2015, 1:08 PM UTC

jpfr wrote: post #33

generic_user wrote: post #11

There is a coordinated media attempt across the EU to spin positive 'messaging' onto the refugee crisis. But make no mistake this is a total disaster for the refugees, member state Citizens and the EU bureaucracy. The EU has been exposed once again as an incompetent overreaching poorly though dangerously romantic mistake. Continuous failures of ECB policy, the collapse of Greece under the EURO, the PIGS in serious tr…

The EU is winning this. It shows that it goes by the humanitarian principles it claims to have. Refugees fleeing from a humanitarian crisis are allowed to stay and to become citizens. People fleeing from a bad economic situation are not. > But make no mistake this is a total disaster for the refugees, member state Citizens and the EU bureaucracy. It's a disaster for the refugees. But the disaster is in Syria. > The d…

As a European I hope the EU is not guided by blind faith in abstract ideas, but is acting pragmatically and to the interest of its own people instead.

Re: A 22-year-old anti-Nazi song tops German charts again – to welcome refugees

#55

Post by omonra » Sat, Sep 05, 2015, 1:09 PM UTC

mahouse wrote: post #16

generic_user wrote: post #11

There is a coordinated media attempt across the EU to spin positive 'messaging' onto the refugee crisis. But make no mistake this is a total disaster for the refugees, member state Citizens and the EU bureaucracy. The EU has been exposed once again as an incompetent overreaching poorly though dangerously romantic mistake. Continuous failures of ECB policy, the collapse of Greece under the EURO, the PIGS in serious tr…

What I don't understand is why us Europeans have to pay for the adventurism of the NATO; I wish all the refugees moved to Israel and the US, to be honest. Once again Putin is right, and this uncovers how a permanent conflict at the arab world is in the interest of the NATO and the US/Israel-aligned world overall.

Please keep your tinfoil-hat antisemitism off HN.

Re: A 22-year-old anti-Nazi song tops German charts again – to welcome refugees

#56

Post by marincounty » Sat, Sep 05, 2015, 1:09 PM UTC

Asbostos wrote: post #37

Has there ever been a case where a country received too many refugees and its economy deteriorated as a consequence? People provide labor which is what causes economic growth. They're the most valuable thing a country can have if it's not flooded with oil or similar natural resources. Of course there may be a lag as skills don't match demand, but that'll close up over time.

"Has there ever been a case where a country received too many refugees and its economy deteriorated as a consequence? People provide labor which is what causes economic growth."

I'll get hammered for this, but it depends on the country? I probally shouldn't comment because I'll be labeled a racist?

Right now Canada is offering certain refuges $8000 to leave. I don't think they are being mean? They are just concerned about the long term consequences? Or, they are racists? See--there's just no way to discuss it?

I see the way the good liberal people of San Francisco step over the Homeless, constantly complain, harass, and arrest these poor people; what would that liberal city do with thousands of broke refugees arriving daily, all using the Starbuck's restrooms, and sleeping in Golden Gate Park?

Those rich Arab countries should be doing what Jordan is doing? Then again, their economies are horrid, and have huge unemployment rates. (horrid for the average citizen)

Re: A 22-year-old anti-Nazi song tops German charts again – to welcome refugees

#57

Post by return0 » Sat, Sep 05, 2015, 1:09 PM UTC

acqq wrote: post #51

return0 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't mind the positive messaging, and to be precise the number of refugees is still small. There are millions that have been driven out of syria in neighboring countries like jordan. However the european media are doing a bad job at telling people the whole story in simple terms about how syria got in this mess and what are the ways to end the crisis where it began (military intervention? who knows). It shouldn't…

> the european media are doing a bad job at telling people the whole story in simple terms about how syria got in this mess The BBC text linked "conveniently" ignores some influential players and even the recent history: Compare: https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/cia-b... The Washington Post, September 11, 2013: "CIA begins weapons delivery to Syrian rebels" And: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isl…

All true, but you rarely find an article that mentions the whole story in simple terms, instead of artifacts.

Re: A 22-year-old anti-Nazi song tops German charts again – to welcome refugees

#58

Post by leaveyou » Sat, Sep 05, 2015, 1:13 PM UTC

chvid wrote: post #35

moe wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The EU has its own Press agents that work with all Member state media and the international Press Including the USA. It really hurts to read this kind of drivel on HN. This is not how the press works. "The press" is not an uniform entity. This is not how any of this works. Please take your conspiracy theories elsewhere.

"The EU has its own Press agents that work with all Member state media and the international Press Including the USA." That is probably true but I don't understand how the recent pictures of a Syrian child washing ashore could be a part of a "coordinated release"?

It looks quite coordinated because the same press was raging against eastern european immigrants, workers and gypsies for years before and accused them of parasitism and now in one, two months, with appeal to emotions, the new immigrants which have way higher chances of being hard to assimilate and drain some budgets are portrayed in rather a positive light. The father who recklessly took his family from the relative safety of Turkey to death on an overcrowded boat for the elusive european mirage is portrayed as innocent victim..

Re: A 22-year-old anti-Nazi song tops German charts again – to welcome refugees

#59

Post by moe » Sat, Sep 05, 2015, 1:13 PM UTC

generic_user wrote: post #38

moe wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The EU has been encouraging migration for years for there supposed 'demographic crisis' Oh, so now it's not Merkel but the EU. This is reported on regally in the press if you care to research. I'm not the one making bullshit claims here. The onus is on you to name your sources.

Merkel has been playing out her Imigration dramas for years now (along with the EU). I am not very compeled to to dig up storys they are numerous and well known. Perhaps one of Her most melodramatic epasodes was "Islam 'belongs to Germany'". That will perhaps be here defining Utterance for better or worse. http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/01/12/us-germany-islam-m...

And there we have your true colors.

Re: A 22-year-old anti-Nazi song tops German charts again – to welcome refugees

#60

Post by acqq » Sat, Sep 05, 2015, 1:14 PM UTC

return0 wrote: post #57

acqq wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the european media are doing a bad job at telling people the whole story in simple terms about how syria got in this mess The BBC text linked "conveniently" ignores some influential players and even the recent history: Compare: https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/cia-b... The Washington Post, September 11, 2013: "CIA begins weapons delivery to Syrian rebels" And: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isl…

All true, but you rarely find an article that mentions the whole story in simple terms, instead of artifacts.

The actual simple terms would be too inconvenient to state them directly and certainly not many people would be prepared to even consider the story:

For example starting with this ("Remembering 1960s Afghanistan"):

http://blogs.denverpost.com/captured/2013/01/28/podlich-afgh...

and then this ("Zbigniew Brzezinski Taliban Pakistan Afghanistan pep talk 1979"):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYvO3qAlyTg

Zbigniew Brzezinski was the National Security Advisor to the US President Jimmy Carter at that time.

http://www.aljazeera.com/archive/2003/04/2008410113842420760...

"When former US National Security advisor Zbigniew Brzezinski bragged about prompting the Soviet Union to invade Afghanistan so that it could get its "Vietnam" he was not making an empty boast."

"Brzezinski said he convinced Carter to sign the first directive for secret aid to opponents of the pro-Soviet regime in Kabul on July 3, 1979 in an effort to goad the Red Army into invading, in a 1998 interview."