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Ask HN: How can we solve the loneliness epidemic?

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451–460 of 1001 posts

Re: Ask HN: How can we solve the loneliness epidemic?

#451

Spending time in parts of Latin America or western Europe or east Asia and then coming back to the US, you can see a lot of ways in which we've built loneliness into the fabric of US culture. It goes beyond car culture. It's probably illegal to build a cafe within walking distance of your neighborhood or into the first floor of your apartment complex. Americans get an idea of how bad we have it when we go on vacation…

> or into the first floor of your apartment complex. I wouldn't trust a cafe built into an apartment complex. I'd expect it to be low-quality, over-priced food placed specifically to try and make a quick buck off people who don't know any better or who physically can't get somewhere better. You're right that it goes beyond car culture (and zoning laws are part of car culture), but I think it also goes beyond zoning l…

Only if it's a rare novelty. If having a cafe near by is just the norm, it isn't any more expensive.

Re: Ask HN: How can we solve the loneliness epidemic?

#452
I've been thinking recently about the scale at which it seems the vast vast majority of people participate in close to zero public discussion online and what a bummer it is.

Basically all discussion platforms are broken for any sort of long term meaningful discussion which I think is at least part of the problem. Even this thread and this comment just the fact that the thread is now 4 hours old the amount of views and chance of getting many responses drops precipitously. On most platforms unless you are someone with a large following you basically have to think like a marketer and post often and early on posts to stand a chance of getting a discussion going. It's always so ephemeral too. Even though posts on a platform like HN on reddit still exist and you can comment on old threads probably 99% of the activity happens in the first 6 or so hours and then it largely ends.

It makes me miss forums where at least you had long lived threads with simple time based post order and a good chance of replies. This doesn't seem to exist on only platforms now and forums have largely faded away.

The fragmentation of discussion has also messed things up. For example yesterday I was listening to a HardFork podcast episode which is a fairly popular pod, topping the charts in at least the tech category, and after listening I wanted to check for discussion around the episode and probably leave a comment or two. I assume this episode had to have gotten at least in the low tens of thousands of plays though perhaps that is way off. I went searching for discussion and basically found a largely dead subreddit for the podcast with no threads being regularly created for the episode and an empty comment section on nytimes which any site comment section is a useless place for discussion anyways. The pod is also posted on youtube which the youtube comment section had the most activity of anything I found but the youtube comment section and the way it is structured/operates is perhaps the most useless of all the platforms for trying to have any discussion. I just don't understand how if at least say ten thousand people listened to the episode surely at least 1% would be interested in discussing it and 100+ people going back and forth would be a large, active, healthy discussion somewhere.

Even threads that seem "active" on sites like HN or Reddit in the context of the actual audience sizes are shockingly small and confuse me. For example The Pitt season 2 just premiered and posted 5.4 million viewers, the subreddit post ep discussion currently has 5.3k comments which is quite high for a show. That is a joke of a percentage though, 0.1%! and even worse in the context of people that are posting probably post more than once in the thread. I understand many and even most people not wanting to post to discuss a show they just watched but how the hell is less than 1 in a thousand!

This post got long which also damages the chance of any engagement due to TLDR culture.

Re: Ask HN: How can we solve the loneliness epidemic?

#453
AI (chat) companies now have enough data to recommend h2h (human to human) but they are not building this.

They could literally find people who are working on he same things and recommend them for networking etc.

But that would take you off platform. Off attention.

Who wants to build this. Others must be thinking the same thing?

Re: Ask HN: How can we solve the loneliness epidemic?

#454
Housing in my city has been expensive for years, and the knock-on effect is that most people I know live so far apart we barely see each other anymore.

When you stack a two hour trip each way on top of the rising cost of doing anything at all, on top of already crushing housing and living costs, you end up with a perfect storm where staying home becomes the default. Not because people don’t want to socialise, but because the effort and expense make it impractical.

This has been a prolem where I live for years and I've actively watched it become worse over time as people have been forced to move further and further apart, and further and further away from the active areas of the city in order to be able to afford to keep a roof over their head.

Re: Ask HN: How can we solve the loneliness epidemic?

#455

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the trick is getting off social media. When I was a computer nerd in the 2000s, I noticed people used to like to hang around and chat, but I mostly didn't. Now, everyone is an internet addict, and I was just ahead of the curve. No one hangs around and chats anymore. When you get off social media, real life becomes far more interesting. The problem with addiction is that it's so stimulating that everything els…

I agree but if your goal is to socialize more, it's not enough to get off social media. You need to be in a place where enough other people do too. Think of a city as both a spatial and a temporal grouping of people that are in the same place at the same time. Every hour a person spends at home on social media is an hour that they aren't really in the city and are not available for you to socialize with. The cumulati…

This problem is not going to be solved by individual action. Sure there is some things you can and should do, but for it to be solved at a population scale it has to involve changing the actual structure of society that caused the problem in the first place.

Tackling phone addiction and lack of public spaces is going to be critical.

Re: Ask HN: How can we solve the loneliness epidemic?

#456

People need to purposefully and intentionally do things. Sitting home on an app, watching TV is easy. There is no fear or rejection, there is no work to get out of the house, there is no risk. But there is also no reward. My thoughts on this are you need to have multiple roots into your community. This is something that you go to often and talk to people, become a regular, say hi. Think back to how your parents or gr…

Sure, but what about the people who don't do this ? Those who sit at home all day, scrolling away, drinking themselves to death, wondering why life is so lonely. The only time you ever see such people is when they're walking to the grocery store. How do you reach out to them to let them know about these ideas or encourage them to try it? Especially when they're filled with discouraging thoughts? What if all they need…

I've reviewed this and your other comments on the thread, and I think you're making a mistake, believing that to solve the loneliness epidemic, you primarily need to "reach people."

As long as leaving the house and making real contact is harder (requires more self discipline) than staying in and scrolling, all you can do is project a message to folks at home, like "hi, you're not alone in feeling lonely," but you haven't solved the fundamental problem: it's harder to do the right thing than it is to do the wrong thing.

To solve the loneliness epidemic, you have to make the right thing easier than the wrong thing. "Reaching out" to more people will not accomplish that. Elsewhere in this thread, you've rejected the idea of pursuing a public policy, but policy is the only answer anyone's provided in this thread that could make that happen.

(Now, it turns out that you'll have to do a lot of outreach to make a public policy happen, but you'll be asking for their vote, not a regular commitment to show up weekly at a club; outreach is the right approach to that problem.)

Re: Ask HN: How can we solve the loneliness epidemic?

#457

I'm also in this group, so I have a few theories as to what causes it and how to fix it. For one thing, I was severely traumatized as a kid, which delayed a lot of my social skills. I'm catching up but not all the way there yet. When my social battery is full, I can do pretty well, but if I'm even a little down, it's basically impossible to act normally. I also had it hammered into me as a kid that nobody wants me ar…

Hey, I love you. Since I was a small child, my grandfather used to beat me savagely and shake me and pin me to the ground, screaming that the devil was inside of me and that I would never be capable of loving or being loved. This was literally beaten into me. He'd beat me with the buckle end of the belt, like a whip, hitting my face, arms, whatever he could. He'd keep beating me until I couldn't cry anymore, telling…

I just want to say thanks for sharing your burden and how you were able to overcome it so others can be inspired.

I feel like nowadays people are really encouraged to never display any vulnerability. It goes totally against the hype and hustle culture of the attention economy. To do that so candidly takes a lot of courage and confidence, and that's really impressive.

I'm sorry that happened to you and I'm glad you're doing well. And if that doubt ever seeps into your thoughts, remember they were full of shit and you're absolutely capable of loving and being loved.

Re: Ask HN: How can we solve the loneliness epidemic?

#458
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

this is one reason, while i personally work from home, i actually lament that many 20-somethings will never be in an office i'm nearing 40, have a wife and kid, house in the mountains, etc... but, damn, those office days were foundational to the person I am today

While this is true, it's worth mentioning that a regular coffee machine small talk in the office is not building any relationships. At least that's how I experience it. It can start one, but won't automatically make one. I can go for a coffee and routinely get dragged into 30 min conversation about politics, or cars, or weather, or any other subject I literally don't care about. All the good relationships begin with…

YMMV I guess. I've got tons of friends I've made walking around the office and just dropping in and asking people what they're working on and introducing myself, or sitting at a table with people I didn't. Some are no more than acquaintances, but some are close friends now.

Re: Ask HN: How can we solve the loneliness epidemic?

#459
post #91

All of the replies so far are suggesting ideas for an individual but seem to be missing the real crux of the matter... Yes, you'll be less lonely if you join a group, get out of your house, etc... But how do we actively incentivize that? Social media and whatnot have hundreds of thousands of people working around the clock to find ways to suck you in and monopolize your time. While "everyone should recognize the prob…

> But how do we actively incentivize that?

Is immediately and completely solving the problem not a good enough incentive? If you go outside and interact, you will be much less lonely.

There is no barrier! You don't need to overthink this. Walkable cities third spaces etc., all great — but literally just go out and interact with people you can do it today many people do it to great success!

Re: Ask HN: How can we solve the loneliness epidemic?

#460
post #438

You have to be the one who creates things to do. Really, that’s it. You want to play D&D together, you host and DM. You want to just hang out, you reach out and propose what you’re doing. You want more purposeful and meaningful time, join a volunteer group you vibe with. Even if it’s meeting for coffee. You have to be the one who reaches out. You have to do it on a regular cadence. If, like me, you don’t have little…

I've been trying to do this. One thing I've observed is trying to arrange people to play board games is quite difficult because you can't predict how many people will show up. People get sick, misread the times, etc. And a lot of games are very sensitive to player count, so having 2 people too few or too many has the ability to make the game somewhat unplayable or risk people sitting out watching. Easier to just host…

Could you be more flexible about what game you are playing depending on how many show up?
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