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Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

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Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#991
post #51

I work for another company that is going to do a partial return to office. I will be looking at options for companies that offer full in person office (or 90% in person office) after things settle down. I have worked full remote for a total of 5 years of my career, and I believe working in the office is a competitive advantage. * Overhearing hallway conversations (and joining them) helps spawn invocation. * I often d…

> I save money by spending less on food, drinks, and electricity. For those of us who have to commute, it's not exactly the norm to be saving money while commuting. Commutes are responsible for a 10% drop in hourly wages[1], and the median commute time results in spending 10 full days commuting a year. The average commuter in one of the largest metro areas in the country will spend over 13 full days commuting a year:…

That's one reason why I left Seattle. I was commuting 4 days/week, with a 1hr 15min commute in both directions, so I was spending 21.66 days a year in the car. Why so long? Affordable housing, of course.

I took a small pay cut, moved the east coast and now spend 24 minutes a day commuting, which is infinitely better.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#992

What I find really disconcerting is that the senior leaders in the tech industry have been talking for years about increasing gender inclusivity. Yet very few major tech companies seem to be wholeheartedly embracing full remote, despite it being by far the most effective way to encourage more women to join the industry. Research shows that women are 50% more likely to prefer full remote than men[1]. For better or wor…

"Gender inclusivity" at tech companies is really a completely different axis than "motherhood or fatherhood friendly". "Parent" is not a protected class (at least, not on Twitter), and it's really not the goal of any FAANG company to encourage their workers to have families. It requires much harder tradeoffs than being "gender diverse".

> "Parent" is not a protected class

Many states make familial status a protected class in employment, and the FMLA also makes discriminating based on certain family-based factors illegal.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#993

"Cook wrapped up the memo by saying that he's looking forward to seeing employee faces. "I know I'm not alone in missing the hum of activity, the energy, creativity and collaboration of our in-person meetings and the sense of community we've all built," he wrote." CEO's all spout the same nonsense. The majority of people work because they need to earn money. They're not working to make a new 'family' or change the wo…

It's not necessarily nonsense. In particular, "creativity". People can spark ideas in other people. I suspect that it happens more often in-person than on a group video chat. I would find it perfectly reasonable that Tim Cook thinks that, too - genuinely thinks it, not just spouting nonsense.

Now, that's "it's better for the company" rather than "it's better for you". But when that happens, it can feel pretty good. So in that sense, it can be better for employees too.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#994
One major point I noticed everyone was not commenting on was the psychological side as seen through management's eyes.

I've been both sides of the table, so to speak, and can understand the perverse motivations that sometimes come into it. Some people in management actually love being in management because of the hierarchy that comes with having subordinates in one area, and a manager desk that overlooks them. The same desire drives such managers to have all-department meetings which serve little purpose. From their perspective, it reinforces their superior status over the individual contributors. When such managers have remote staff they don't get the same validation. They desire people to come in to get their personal validation with everyone sitting around them. At this point there is some post-rationalisation. The various factual benefits of having people in the office are offered. But they are not the true motivators for this kind of manager.

Obviously not all managers are such ego or status driven as this description. But it is not a caricature at all. I have regularly seen this perspective and attitude amongst managers. It is just easier to spot and understand when you are at C-level and have management or senior staff reporting to you.

I believe this is the true explanation for why there has historically been reluctance to offer a remote-first culture in work environments. Of course, with COVID, public health issues have adjusted the power balance here. When COVID is not such a public health matter in a locality, the return to normal now means return but for 3 days. Why 3? I think it is enough days for management to still feel that they are the boss on enough days of the week. Down to 2 days, managers would not feel boss-like.

Lastly I don't want to malign the true managers and leaders we have. Those that want to achieve great results, and circumstantially need to be a manager, just to realise the journey with team contributors are the best type of manager, in my view.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#995
post #884

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bingo. People who lead companies are not wired like the rest of us. It's not some bullshit about mission or impact. Executives are there for power. Power is the sweat under a subordinate's arms when you address them. Power is having control over the bodies of others when you tell them where to be, how long to be there, where to sit and how to dress. Power is having roomfuls of people in rapt attention to you. Power i…

I have worked in tech a while, including knowing a number of executives (prior and post them being executives), and I don't know a single one who is 'in it for the power' and feeling good because they can tell employees where to sit and how to dress (or getting sex from subordinates!). They're in it because they love making big impacts, having authority to make _big_ decisions, not watching people sit down in chairs.…

Ignorance is bliss

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#996

COVID forced the experiment of full time remote office work on corporations without managers having any influence over how long it would be implemented. So now we know the result of that experiment - just look at the S&P500 / Dow market caps. An over-simplification, I know, but hey, that's price of the stock is the CEO's score card. Corporate middle management and CEOs no longer have any excuse for maintaining the am…

> "I know I'm not alone in missing the hum of activity, the energy, creativity and collaboration of our in-person meetings and the sense of community we've all built" Easy to say when you're not commuting an hour to and from work five days a week. I would bet Tim isn't too far from the Apple HQ. I say this as someone who does not like working from home but does live very close to the office.

"not alone in missing the hum of activity, the energy, creativity and collaboration of our in-person meetings"

That's a manager talking right there. Can't stand the fact that people don't need his physical presence to do their work. #dinosaur

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#997
post #51

I work for another company that is going to do a partial return to office. I will be looking at options for companies that offer full in person office (or 90% in person office) after things settle down. I have worked full remote for a total of 5 years of my career, and I believe working in the office is a competitive advantage. * Overhearing hallway conversations (and joining them) helps spawn invocation. * I often d…

I agree, I've worked remote for a little over a year now, and I definitely prefer working in on office. The main benefit for me is the hallway conversations, real-life meetings, sketching things out on whiteboard, and work/life separation. I do not see myself ever working in a fully remote environment.

https://sharetheboard.com -- It doesn't solve all of the problems you've listed but it does help with remote white boarding! Try it and share feedback, please!

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#998
post #575

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you get a nice house in a good neighborhood near the office on $300k/year in the Bay Area these days? A lot of people in the Bay Area make a lot less. There are just so many markets in the US where you’ll find a much nicer house in a better neighborhood for a fraction of the cost. If you already own a house in the Bay Area, you’re set. But otherwise, the paycheck begins to look a bit like an illusion.

My question was about FAANG-level salaries specifically though. You're probably not going to be able to buy a house near the office on that salary, no. But renting is still a viable option. To provide an anecdote: my wife and I moved to the Bay Area from Kansas City and housing as a portion of after-tax income increased from 16% to 24% renting a smaller single-family house with the same bedroom count (significantly s…

I’m mid-career, work at FANG, and that is close to my salary. Perhaps my situation isn’t the norm because I moved into FANG from a very specialized job and got downleveled. But the point is that even within FANG, not everyone is pulling in $400k+.

The 3x income seems meaningless if I’m reading correctly. You ended up with 2x for a smaller house and yard, which to be fair is a reasonable tradeoff.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#999
post #870

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you use public transport, you can regain that time. In the UK you can get a seat on most rush hour trains, and even standing up on the Tube you can read a book, listen to a podcast, do your email etc. It's also good thinking time. Driving a car yep you're absolutely right, but if you commute via car a long distance for a considerable amount of time I think you're crazy.

> In the UK you can get a seat on most rush hour trains I don't what commuter line you're coming in on but it must be one with seats on the roof.

Many UK Cities. I guess you're in London? Certainly wasn't easy to get a seat there, but then London is only a small part of the UK's pop.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#1000
post #597

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, for one thing only _one_ of you needs to commute. Secondly, you can work towards a situation where you don't have that commute, or it's cheap / clean / easy / you don't lose all the time. Spoiler: live on a trainline or buy a bicycle. Third, I don't believe this is the main reason for commuting. I think it's because people want to live in one place and work in another, which is usually a bad idea - especially f…

> people want to live in one place and work in another, which is usually a bad idea do you suggest moving every time you change jobs? I suppose that can be done as a single person or a couple, but moving homes every 4-6 years with children who have to change schools, etc is (I'm sorry) an insane proposition.

> do you suggest moving every time you change jobs?

No, just if you move to a new job that's a long journey away from your house.

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