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Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

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Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#461

Post by radec »

wikibob wrote: post #424
gnicholas wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The food/drink part could be the most of it. A Google employee enjoying free food and drink could save $60/day versus buying prepared food ($10 for breakfast, $20 for lunch, and $30 for dinner). If you drink much coffee or other beverages, that could be another $15/day. If you weigh this against spending an extra hour or two commuting, then it looks like a lousy bargain. But if you are like many people, and ended up…

Jesus Christ. I eat well and spend maybe $400 a month on groceries and food. I’ve heard that Google recruiters attempt to con potential employees into some ridiculous assessment of the “free” food as a compensation benefit with numbers like those that you posited above. I can’t imagine valuing daily meals that highly.

I'm glad others are shocked by that $60/day on food. I would say food takes up the largest percentage of my expenses and $60 is easily 5 days worth of food for two.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#462

Post by dkjaudyeqooe »

aerosmile wrote: post #332

It's very unfortunate that the WFH experiment didn't turn out to be a 100% winner. We had a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to do all office work from home for the rest of our lives, and it certainly feels like that most companies didn't love it. There are obviously some exceptions, but what matters is what 90% of them will do - and right now it looks like that they will be asking for on-site presence somewhere in the…

I think the cat is out of the bag with WFH, and it will evolve toward what works for workers and what management can tolerate. As usual a lot will depend on how indispensable you are.

It's never that simple, as you had hoped.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#463

Post by greycol »

max46 wrote: post #417
ashtonkem wrote: post #382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My coworkers are great, but do you know who is better? My family and friends.

then get a job that requires less hours and/or less transit. Don't try to work at a place that requires a very high dedication with a lot of hours and then use wfh as a way to lie to you boss to spend more time with your kids when you are supposed to work.

You can use a 15 minute break to be with family if you WFH. You can't use a 15 minute break to be with your family and complete a >15 minute round trip.

If you believe being in the office is required, fine, but if that's your criteria for what a "very high dedication" employee is then you'll need to pay more remuneration(or offer other perks) than a business that requires the same skill set and dedication without requiring the employees to be in the office.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#464

Post by bpodgursky »

dcolkitt wrote: post #384

What I find really disconcerting is that the senior leaders in the tech industry have been talking for years about increasing gender inclusivity. Yet very few major tech companies seem to be wholeheartedly embracing full remote, despite it being by far the most effective way to encourage more women to join the industry. Research shows that women are 50% more likely to prefer full remote than men[1]. For better or wor…

"Gender inclusivity" at tech companies is really a completely different axis than "motherhood or fatherhood friendly". "Parent" is not a protected class (at least, not on Twitter), and it's really not the goal of any FAANG company to encourage their workers to have families. It requires much harder tradeoffs than being "gender diverse".

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#465

Post by pm90 »

amyjess wrote: post #198
Nbox9 wrote: post #51

I work for another company that is going to do a partial return to office. I will be looking at options for companies that offer full in person office (or 90% in person office) after things settle down. I have worked full remote for a total of 5 years of my career, and I believe working in the office is a competitive advantage. * Overhearing hallway conversations (and joining them) helps spawn invocation. * I often d…

I do not care about being competitve. I work so I can draw a salary to fund my life. That's it. I don't care about constantly climbing a ladder. I don't care about advancing my career for the sake of advancing my career. I just want to enjoy my life, and working for a living is just my means to that end. If I'm making enough to be comfortable, I don't care about chasing a promotion or getting ahead of people. I can't…

Oh my god you are so right. It’s somewhat unfathomable that companies were able to see that remote work actually works and yet insist on going back even for people for whom wfh is essential to their well being.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#466

Post by okareaman »

dkjaudyeqooe wrote: post #429
okareaman wrote: post #421

I was once called into HR for smoking outdoors on a balcony that no one ever told me was no smoking. No signs. I found the ritual humiliating and belittling. Then they had an issue for going to group therapy at the end of the day because management decided to get pizza and make everyone work late. I hated corporate culture with a passion. It definitely screwed up my creativity and productivity. If you like going into…

This rings true. The fact that people enjoy corporate offices and make friends there beggars belief. I always though that's where people with personality disorders ended up. Sociopathic (and usually incompetent) management, petty office politics of the lowest order and a focus on anything but the actual work meant that the only way I could tolerate it was a few months at a time, and as a contractor. Then they at leas…

The people who enjoy the camaraderie of the office, signing birthday cards, gossiping by the water cooler and talking about their 10K run for charity never struck me as the smartest people. It always struck me as a ridiculous waste of time.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#467

Post by Tiktaalik »

coldtea wrote: post #68
Nbox9 wrote: post #51

I work for another company that is going to do a partial return to office. I will be looking at options for companies that offer full in person office (or 90% in person office) after things settle down. I have worked full remote for a total of 5 years of my career, and I believe working in the office is a competitive advantage. * Overhearing hallway conversations (and joining them) helps spawn invocation. * I often d…

> I save money by spending less on food, drinks, and electricity. Compared to commuting (car+gas) and time-to-commute opportunity costs (to use for personal house tasks, side projects, self health)? I seriously doubt it.

The amount that people go on about how WFH is saving them from their commute... Really goes to show how badly so many cities are designed that these sort of massive commutes are an ordeal required by so many

It'd be nice if an outcome of this pandemic is a political change toward ending absurd commutes by building cities better, but doesn't really seem like people are putting two and two together

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#468

Post by dclusin »

pm90 wrote: post #458
Aeolun wrote: post #423

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As long as you are enjoying yourself it’s fine right? I enjoyed that for a while too, but just developing became boring, so now I’m also trying to play office politics. Not in the sense of some machiavellan scheme, but previously I’d just utterly ignore it.

Office politics can be amusing if you’re able to step away from it a bit and don’t care too much about the rat race. It’s immediately obvious who are the folks genuinely interested in building value and who are drones interpreting what their managers order them to do.

Eventually someone has to do the lowly business of actually implementing the value that those 10x ninja fullstack super senior software architects just created. God bless the drones.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#469

Post by throwawybillion »

ryanSrich wrote: post #446

Well that was fast. I’m not sure what I expected. SV companies and their investors have been actively working to suppress remote work for as long as I can remember. So this move makes sense in theory. I’ll be curious to see how much turnover this causes. I can’t name a single person I know that ever wants to go back to an office. I see many comments here waxing about the virtues of forced commute and force colocated…

I have good friends, but I don't have family. About six months into the pandemic I started having severe panic attacks. Since we've been back in the office part time, my mental health has improved dramatically.

Point being that working with good people can be a healthy part of a social life, and saying the people who rely on that have personal issues seems... well, privileged.

There is value in having a team working closely with each other, and enjoying that doesn't mean you're broken.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#470

Post by shkkmo »

wikibob wrote: post #424
gnicholas wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The food/drink part could be the most of it. A Google employee enjoying free food and drink could save $60/day versus buying prepared food ($10 for breakfast, $20 for lunch, and $30 for dinner). If you drink much coffee or other beverages, that could be another $15/day. If you weigh this against spending an extra hour or two commuting, then it looks like a lousy bargain. But if you are like many people, and ended up…

Jesus Christ. I eat well and spend maybe $400 a month on groceries and food. I’ve heard that Google recruiters attempt to con potential employees into some ridiculous assessment of the “free” food as a compensation benefit with numbers like those that you posited above. I can’t imagine valuing daily meals that highly.

The key part there is "buying prepared food". 60 per day is much more reasonable if you eat out or get takeout/delivery every meal.
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