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Asahi Linux lead developer Hector Martin resigns from Linux kernel

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Re: Asahi Linux lead developer Hector Martin resigns from Linux kernel

#961

Post by account42 »

jorvi wrote: post #927
soraminazuki wrote: post #412

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The dirty laundry of the entire kernel community not immediately knuckling under and implementing a rather long list of technical changes in the preferred way of one specific individual? That's an unreasonable take. It would be disastrous for all of us if the project ever went that way, considering the importance of Linux today. It's not like I disagree with some of the points that Marcan raised, but others have equa…

> straight to social media drama. It was a move of frustration due to having exhausted all other avenues. It wasn't his first action.

Things not moving as fast as he wants isn't the same as having exhausted all other avenues.

Re: Asahi Linux lead developer Hector Martin resigns from Linux kernel

#962

Post by account42 »

ferfumarma wrote: post #411
hajile wrote: post #377

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Linus thinks that the social media angle is wrong, he should defuse situations before they become explosive because even if one of the devs didn't bring up the drama, there are dozens of news companies that would have printed up articles the second they found the discussion anyway. Linus should have stepped in long before a maintainer blew their stack and started throwing out ultimatums. Once that happened, Linus…

> Linus only got an opinion once things blew up on social media which proves that social media works which is the exact opposite of what he claims. That is really an apt point. You can't condition people one way, and tell them to do the opposite.

You can expect professionals to not act like trained monkeys.

Re: Asahi Linux lead developer Hector Martin resigns from Linux kernel

#963

Post by account42 »

adastra22 wrote: post #683
tsimionescu wrote: post #566

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Someone will have to take over Linus' role. There's no way that kernel development can work without a person in charge, at least not in anyway that is remotely similar to today.

Not being remotely similar to today could be a very good thing.

Good for who? External parties that want to force their vision of what the project should be?

Re: Asahi Linux lead developer Hector Martin resigns from Linux kernel

#964

Post by account42 »

uecker wrote: post #741
imtringued wrote: post #668

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think that's true. I think the C guys told themselves that writing safe C code is just a matter of skill, but data shows that the amount of skill necessary to avoid writing unsafe C just isn't there. The average C developer isn't as competent as they claim. You can lie to yourself and say that the same security problems exist in other languages, but that isn't true. When I check the vulnerabilities marked as…

I think already phrasing it like this "the C guys" is inflammatory and not helpful. The C community is huge and there is also a large part interested in more secure programming. Also the idea that tall C code is hopelessly unsafe while all Rust code is perfectly memory safe are both far from the truth. In reality, you can make C code quite good and you make Rust code very unsafe. While Rust certainly has some advanta…

It also doesn't help that the Rust comes with more than just the safty changes. The expectations for development models, distribution models, backwards compatibility guarantees not to mention the cultural aspects are very different which is the real reason it causes so many clashes.

It get pushed with the argument for better memory safety but then wants to change the entire world as well.

Re: Asahi Linux lead developer Hector Martin resigns from Linux kernel

#965

Post by account42 »

Filligree wrote: post #930
f1shy wrote: post #774

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it impossible to just delete the rust parts and go back to pure C? That ship could come back to port anytime.

I would quite like my laptop to keep working, and half its drivers are rust…

Then you (and others interested in running Linux on fruit company hardware) can sponsor someone to rewrite those drivers in a way that fits the Linux project.

Re: Asahi Linux lead developer Hector Martin resigns from Linux kernel

#966

Post by account42 »

Pet_Ant wrote: post #439
derhuerst wrote: post #352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This [0] seems to be the closest to your parent's statement: > The common ground is that I have absolutely no interest in helping to spread a multi-language code base. I absolutely support using Rust in new codebase, but I do not at all in Linux. [0] https://lwn.net/ml/all/20250204052916.GA28741@lst.de/

He needs really to be removed from the process. He may be useful for now but for long term he is an impediment. C is the 1970’s. Sure it’s proven itself… but so had Assembly when Unix was invented.

This kind of zealotry is not going to convince people over to accept Rust into their projects.

Re: Asahi Linux lead developer Hector Martin resigns from Linux kernel

#967

Post by account42 »

johnny22 wrote: post #569
pverghese wrote: post #501

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And there is no issue with that. What's this pervasive need to spread Rust to every part of the software space. It's just becoming a little too pushy and desperate

c'mon.. please know about the issue at all to some level before commenting. The rust for linux project exists because Linus approved it. It's that simple. Linus thinks it a good idea to at least try Rust in the kernel. If he didn't, then none of this would be happening.

That may be what you want the situation to be but at this point it isn't what the situation is.

Re: Asahi Linux lead developer Hector Martin resigns from Linux kernel

#968

Post by account42 »

tjohns wrote: post #237
pipes wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Some of Linus's past messages came across as needlessly aggressive and insulting. There really was no practical reason for that and just served to alienate contributors, and it came across as unprofessional. You can be a strong, opinionated leader and still be kind (or at least neutral) to the people you're working with. A good leader is someone who can deliver hard messages while still keeping your team inspired. It…

Using business-approved language doesn't actually make your message more friendly.

It's not line Linus was prone to using flowery prose against random novices - the rant he's known for were mostly addressed at senior maintainers who really should have known better.

Re: Asahi Linux lead developer Hector Martin resigns from Linux kernel

#969

Post by account42 »

anaisbetts wrote: post #239
pipes wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Bad faith arguments like this don't really belong on HN. Please represent the substance of your argument accurately rather than debating this inaccurate strawman argument.

You disagreeing with an argument does not mean it was made in bad faith (or is without merit for that matter).

Re: Asahi Linux lead developer Hector Martin resigns from Linux kernel

#970

Post by account42 »

wiseowise wrote: post #323
artyom wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except you have no authority to call that out, and we're not forced by law to agree with you. In my opinion Linus was never abusive or disrespectful - just blunt and direct. Unfortunately, there seems to exist people (like me) that would prefer such individuals instead of nice empty words just in case someone gets offended.

Seriously? I’m a huge fan of Linus, but you have to be delusional to not find his rants abusive or disrespectful.

Not as disrespectful as calling those who don't agree with you "delusional".
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