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Asahi Linux lead developer Hector Martin resigns from Linux kernel

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Re: Asahi Linux lead developer Hector Martin resigns from Linux kernel

#681

Post by snvzz »

hajile wrote: post #399
ratorx wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having read through the email thread, I think both vocal people are basically in the wrong here. There is a way to constructively disagree and the DMA maintainer did not do that. The Rust maintainer should not have brigaded using social media. The “in hindsight” version of how this should have gone without ego: * Patch adds Rust bindings to C API * Maintainer has concerns about increased maintenance cost and clarifie…

Both were wrong, but only one was corrected. > If the maintainer (or anyone) is unreasonable, then the only approach is to have someone with more authority weigh in and make the decision to bypass their objections or sustain them (which is sort of the direction this was going before the diatribes). While they were arguing, Linus said nothing. While the maintainer was issuing ultimatums, Linus said nothing. Linus only…

>Both were wrong, but only one was corrected.

People are wrong in LKML often.

This time, somebody was wrong in a much worse way than usual.

Re: Asahi Linux lead developer Hector Martin resigns from Linux kernel

#682

Post by dark-star »

I understand the frustration, but I don't understand the drama.

There are other big Linux forks that met a similar resistance, best example is probably Realtime Linux / RTLinux that was not welcome in the Kernel for what, 15 years? Yet they still continued in their own fork and now most of their patches have finally gone in.

The way they're going to work now should have been the default. Just as RTLinux was a big change to the Linux kernel, Rust will be a big change. You cannot expect the Kernel community to welcome such a huge change with open arms and deal with all the fallout (build system, interfaces, etc.)

Just be ready for your project to take a decade, instead of trying to force it in "now or never". Until then, maintain some out-of-tree modules written in rust that every Linux distro/user can try and test without much fuss. For example, I don't think it will be a huge problem if Mac users have to get their DRM driver at some other repo (or if distributions would have to package some `linux-module-drm-apple` package separately from the Kernel)

Re: Asahi Linux lead developer Hector Martin resigns from Linux kernel

#683

Post by adastra22 »

tsimionescu wrote: post #566
CountHackulus wrote: post #560

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What happens when Linus retires (or god forbid dies)? He can't defuse those situations forever, there needs to be some sort of process.

Someone will have to take over Linus' role. There's no way that kernel development can work without a person in charge, at least not in anyway that is remotely similar to today.

Not being remotely similar to today could be a very good thing.

Re: Asahi Linux lead developer Hector Martin resigns from Linux kernel

#684

Post by chikere232 »

preisschild wrote: post #639
Aeolun wrote: post #555

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But this is just frustration coming out. I don’t think for a moment he expected shaming on social media to work.

But it did work. Linus actually got involved because of it...

If we were dealing with a toddler, one could blame the parent for rewarding their misbehaviour attention... an adult developer not so much

Re: Asahi Linux lead developer Hector Martin resigns from Linux kernel

#686

Post by [deleted] »

hajile wrote: post #377
xenago wrote: post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel the exact same. Marcan has done amazing work, and his random blog entries etc have saved me hours of debugging time in the past. But jeez, it is really painful to see him say absolute nonsense like "If shaming on social media does not work, then tell me what does, because I'm out of ideas." - he has gotta Stop Posting and keep those kinds of thoughts away from his keyboard.

If Linus thinks that the social media angle is wrong, he should defuse situations before they become explosive because even if one of the devs didn't bring up the drama, there are dozens of news companies that would have printed up articles the second they found the discussion anyway. Linus should have stepped in long before a maintainer blew their stack and started throwing out ultimatums. Once that happened, Linus…

[deleted]

Re: Asahi Linux lead developer Hector Martin resigns from Linux kernel

#687

Post by chikere232 »

raverbashing wrote: post #299
artyom wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> an uncommon failure of leadership for Torvalds Exactly the point. IMHO the one and only thing that made Linux successful as a project is Linus' strong leadership - which has been criticized ad-nauseam over the years; yet it's the only thing that yields results. So in the specific instances (like this one) where he's not decisively, unequivocally, and even harshly saying "yes" or "no" to something, the community sho…

Agree The more I hear about "community" the more I roll my eyes It can be great at doing the work but it is awful at setting direction, evolving with the times and focusing on what's important Going by another story on the front page, I have my long list of criticism about systemd but the "get things done" attitude needed to be commended

Perhaps you could fork the kernel and start a better community?

Re: Asahi Linux lead developer Hector Martin resigns from Linux kernel

#688

Post by chikere232 »

J_Shelby_J wrote: post #638
coliveira wrote: post #508

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also agree that Linux should close the door to Rust as a matter of principle, as it has done to any other language other than C. I don't believe in a mixed language kernel, it is just nonsense, specially with such a different language such as Rust which is closer to C++ in philosophy.

Then make it so, so that we can RWIR, and Linux can fade into the sunset with Linus.

Nothing is stopping you

Re: Asahi Linux lead developer Hector Martin resigns from Linux kernel

#690

Post by Tomte »

dark-star wrote: post #682

I understand the frustration, but I don't understand the drama. There are other big Linux forks that met a similar resistance, best example is probably Realtime Linux / RTLinux that was not welcome in the Kernel for what, 15 years? Yet they still continued in their own fork and now most of their patches have finally gone in. The way they're going to work now should have been the default. Just as RTLinux was a big cha…

> and now most of their patches have finally gone in.

Is there anything outstanding? I thought they recently reached the point where everything from -RT is in mainline.

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