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US destroying its reputation as a scientific leader – European science diplomat

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Re: US destroying its reputation as a scientific leader – European science diplomat

#91

Post by gcanyon »

silisili wrote: post #76
lisbbb wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What the US needs first and foremost is a better future for its own citizens. We have abandoned our youth to unemployment and underemployment.

Agreed with this sentiment. The average American doesn't care about any of this. Why would they? You have someone working 40+ hours a week to just barely be able to afford a dumpy apartment, with no real prospects or signs of escape - tell them that the US may no longer be paying top dollar to import the smartest people around the globe and see what they care. In order for all of this to work cleanly, you need the ev…

> see what they care

That's why you need smart people who care planning things. Miss out on either of those and you're going to fail. And right how we have people "planning" things who are neither smart nor caring.

Re: US destroying its reputation as a scientific leader – European science diplomat

#92

Post by meowface »

peppersghost93 wrote: post #83
adventured wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The greatest era of prosperity expansion and peace in world history courtesy of pax Americana. The best decades - measurably - for humanity overall have taken place since the US assumed that role post WW2.

Depends on where you were during those decades. If you're in one of the unlucky countries that didn't do what the US wanted you likely suffered enormously.

Part of it is ideas and ideals. America represents ideas of liberty, liberalism, democracy, and individualism. The USSR/Russia and China represent the exact opposite.

America has failed to live up to those ideals (slavery, plunder, toppling democratically elected leaders to install military dictatorships, unnecessary wars with mass civilian casualties) on multiple occasions, but if you at least look at things on paper, America is selling a better product. And with the (now gutted) aid we provided to the world, and the economic boons of American consumer demand helping to speed up industrialization of poorer countries, benefits weren't just lofty principles.

One nice thing about American ideals is that, domestically, Americans who respect them can fight for them and fight for their preservation and expansion. There exists a noble thing to fight for which can in fact be fought for, and that thing encompasses the principle of not ever permitting people in other countries to suffer so that the United States may gain. Good luck doing any of that in Russia or China in 2025, and likely also in 2050.

Re: US destroying its reputation as a scientific leader – European science diplomat

#93

Post by embedding-shape »

djaouen wrote: post #41
JKCalhoun wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It might be what it takes though, 2nd place (if that), to get the U.S. to stop fucking around.

All I have to say is, don’t blame me. I am an American and didn’t vote for this bullsh*t. Leave me out when you enslave the rest of the Americans lol

> I am an American and didn’t vote for this bullsh*t.

Isn't the whole principle about democracy and freedom that you all stick together no matter what political party/parties is in power? If you're just throwing your hands up in the air because your party isn't the one in control, what kind of democracy is that? The whole point is working together with opponents for common goals.

Otherwise, may I interest you in an insurrection? Pretty hot and trendy these times.

Re: US destroying its reputation as a scientific leader – European science diplomat

#94

Post by layer8 »

ahmedfromtunis wrote: post #74

I recently read "Chip War" and it talked about an era (around the 80s and 90s) were american dominance on electronics (and economy) seemed in deep decline. Japan was the next big thing. But the collective efforts of some government agencies, academia and the private sector helped reverse the trend. American dominance is sure not a given but with an almost century of inertia, all hope is not lost (especially compared…

The current administration is braking hard against the inertia.

Re: US destroying its reputation as a scientific leader – European science diplomat

#95

Post by swagasaurus-rex »

lbrito wrote: post #58
throw-the-towel wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As bad as American domination is, wnat's coming after is might easily be worse.

Why? China is the alternative. How many countries has China waged war against, toppled democratic governments, established puppet março-states and invaded since 1949?

Korea 1950, Tibet 1951, Vietnam 1979 (yes, China invaded Vietnam after USA withdrew).

China also has had border skirmishes with Burma, India, USSR.

Re: US destroying its reputation as a scientific leader – European science diplomat

#96

Post by paxys »

klodolph wrote: post #62
meowface wrote: post #15

All I can say is let us all hope this is merely the American decade of humiliation and not the beginning of the American century of humiliation.

I hope it’s like what happened to countries like England, France, and Spain. You see your empire collapse but the country itself remains intact. England “gave up” scientific and technological leadership during the 20th century. (That’s a tongue-in-cheek take on it, don’t read too much into it.)

It worked out well for Europe because the country that took over its position of leadership position post-WW2 (USA) was aligned with it in all ways (politically, culturally, scientifically, economically), and so (western) European countries could still enjoy all the benefits. It will not be the case this time around, because the next generation of innovation and leadership is going to come from China.

Re: US destroying its reputation as a scientific leader – European science diplomat

#97

Post by [deleted] »

drawnwren wrote: post #26
Angostura wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not sure it does. Particularly since the diplomat is outgoing

If you don't think a foreign diplomat's comments about a counterparty nation are potentially biased, we don't have enough common ground to warrant further discussion.

[deleted]

Re: US destroying its reputation as a scientific leader – European science diplomat

#98

Post by robswc »

bendmorris wrote: post #75
robswc wrote: post #52

I'm OOTL, but there _is_ a ton of waste when it comes to money we give out. The article itself even says here: > [...] the US government has cut scientific grants to academics working on diversity-related topics, halted biomedical grants to international partners, and demanded universities shut down academic units that “belittle” conservative ideas [...] I'd say it's fair to question if taxpayers should be paying for…

In the previous Trump term "diversity related topics" included things like biodiversity which is an important area of research and should be apolitical. Not because of a shift in focus, but because of top-down orders to not fund anything related to "diversity." Conservatives in the past have also tried to belittle research grants to justify eliminating them, such as "studying X about fruit flies." It might sound sill…

> "diversity related topics" included things like biodiversity which is an important area of research and should be apolitical. Not because of a shift in focus, but because of top-down orders to not fund anything related to "diversity."

Do you have a source for this? How can you prove it was simply because it was "diversity related" and not because it someone, somewhere determined the budget needed to be cut because the spending was wasteful?

As far as I can tell, the budget never passed, so we have no way to know one way or another the effects.

I have never seen a government entity claim that cutting their budget wouldn't be catastrophic.

Re: US destroying its reputation as a scientific leader – European science diplomat

#99

Post by embedding-shape »

meowface wrote: post #49
AndrewKemendo wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I think it's very likely counterfactually better than USSR (now Russian) or Chinese hegemony. Imagine if Al Gore had won 2000 - America at the helm while growing increasingly wary of violent foreign interventions seems like the least bad path for Earth. (I am not sure if such a path still remains.) China ultra-liberalizing and becoming a democracy and then the hegemon could be an okay path but I am not too optimistic…

> I think it's very likely counterfactually better than USSR (now Russian) or Chinese hegemony.

Why is it either or the other? Just because the US happens to turn inwards and stop acting like the world police, doesn't mean that other countries suddenly start dreaming of world domination. China and Russian both have plenty of problems in their home fronts and surrounding areas.

Re: US destroying its reputation as a scientific leader – European science diplomat

#100

Post by estearum »

meowface wrote: post #73
klodolph wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope it’s like what happened to countries like England, France, and Spain. You see your empire collapse but the country itself remains intact. England “gave up” scientific and technological leadership during the 20th century. (That’s a tongue-in-cheek take on it, don’t read too much into it.)

I think that is the most likely outcome. However, if the decline starts occurring too rapidly, I do think violent far-right (and perhaps far-left) paramilitary action could become a major problem, like in 1920s/1930s Germany. Tons of time spent lurking in far-right extremist communities out of morbid curiosity, and the spread of far-right ethnosupremacist sentiment on basically every social media platform, has me con…

The good news is those people are fundamentally absolute losers.
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