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US destroying its reputation as a scientific leader – European science diplomat

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Re: US destroying its reputation as a scientific leader – European science diplomat

#21

Post by lysace »

> Signe Ratso, who is in charge of negotiating global access to the EU’s €93.5 billion Horizon Europe research and innovation programme

My thoughts after witnessing Horizon Europe in action when I worked at a hardware/materials research-ish company in Sweden:

- So much pork, so much product concept cosplay.

- All of these grandiose pointless abstract "projects".

- Gotta have like 10+ institutions/companies from lots of different countries involved in each grandiose project, leading to insane overheads.

Just give the institutions/companies (demand equity?) funds instead - stop with the stupid cosplay.

Europe needs to be smarter than the US in how to make this more efficient. Right now that shouldn't that hard.

Re: US destroying its reputation as a scientific leader – European science diplomat

#23

Post by Angostura »

jvanderbot wrote: post #11
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #5

"In a parting shot before her retirement, the European Commission’s top science diplomat has castigated the US for destroying its reputation as a global scientific leader. ... Speaking at the European Science Diplomacy Conference in Copenhagen, she did not elaborate on exactly how the US was wrecking its reputation. ... The next programme, which starts in 2028, will also be more focused on European defence technology…

From the EU perspective, I can see why it pays to say the US is an unreliable or unnecessary partner. It may or may not be true, but cui bono: EU gets to reindustrialize and invest domestically. Seems like a great idea for EU and US both.

What makes you think the U.S continues to be a reliable partner for anyone anywhere?

Re: US destroying its reputation as a scientific leader – European science diplomat

#24

Post by JKCalhoun »

meowface wrote: post #15

All I can say is let us all hope this is merely the American decade of humiliation and not the beginning of the American century of humiliation.

It might be what it takes though, 2nd place (if that), to get the U.S. to stop fucking around.

Re: US destroying its reputation as a scientific leader – European science diplomat

#25

Post by tensor »

mlinhares wrote: post #3

Countries shouldn't have outsourced all research and development to the US, hope they all notice this wasn't a good plan and that they all need to get back to it right now.

Countries don’t outsource any research to the US. US funding lured many scientists to the US but this has never been seen as a positive thing outside the US. In Canada we call it brain drain. Now we’re capitalizing and the US science failing to strengthen our science sector.

Long term science is not at risk. Science doesn’t need the US. This is, however, a big problem for the US.

Re: US destroying its reputation as a scientific leader – European science diplomat

#26

Post by drawnwren »

Angostura wrote: post #18
drawnwren wrote: post #7

"says chief EU research diplomat" -- leaving off half the sentence sure does change the quote.

I’m not sure it does. Particularly since the diplomat is outgoing

If you don't think a foreign diplomat's comments about a counterparty nation are potentially biased, we don't have enough common ground to warrant further discussion.

Re: US destroying its reputation as a scientific leader – European science diplomat

#27

Post by afavour »

zkmon wrote: post #22

It sounds more like a parroting of a popular sentiment as a conclusion, rather than providing a data-based assessment. What are the numbers? What's the real impact? How much lead does USA have over it's nearest competition?

The U.S. Is Funding Fewer Grants in Every Area of Science and Medicine

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2025/12/02/upshot/trump-...

Far too early to know the exact long term effects but it’s definitely happening.

Re: US destroying its reputation as a scientific leader – European science diplomat

#28

Post by lawlessone »

tsunamifury wrote: post #19
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #5

"In a parting shot before her retirement, the European Commission’s top science diplomat has castigated the US for destroying its reputation as a global scientific leader. ... Speaking at the European Science Diplomacy Conference in Copenhagen, she did not elaborate on exactly how the US was wrecking its reputation. ... The next programme, which starts in 2028, will also be more focused on European defence technology…

While America is appearing to be the abject fool here, it’s hard to take any of Europe’s criticisms like this seriously when even in the best of times they have constantly castigated us as fools. They were calling us fools when we were inventing AI in 2015 too. I think what we are doing today is horribly executed, but likely motivated by a farsightedness Europe can’t believe is there since we are all just dumb fools.…

>They were calling us fools when we were inventing AI in 2015 too.

were they? You invented AI in 2015? My Nokia had predictive text over 20 years ago

> but likely motivated by a farsightedness

Oh you're thinking two quarters ahead now?

Re: US destroying its reputation as a scientific leader – European science diplomat

#29

Post by joe_mamba »

drawnwren wrote: post #7

"says chief EU research diplomat" -- leaving off half the sentence sure does change the quote.

Also from the article:

"Speaking at the European Science Diplomacy Conference in Copenhagen, she did not elaborate on exactly how the US was wrecking its reputation."

For someone in the top position of EU's research leadership, she sure does seem to suck at explaining and arguing her statements, which should be the no. 1 skill of academics in research.

Re: US destroying its reputation as a scientific leader – European science diplomat

#30

Post by JKCalhoun »

zkmon wrote: post #22

It sounds more like a parroting of a popular sentiment as a conclusion, rather than providing a data-based assessment. What are the numbers? What's the real impact? How much lead does USA have over it's nearest competition?

I suspect that's a little tricky to quantify, so we're left with anecdotal observations. I would be surprised if anyone looking around objectively could say feel the U.S. was gaining any ground.
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