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The data are clear: The boys are not all right

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Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#861

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We are told america is the best place on earth with all the doors open to you to be rich. That all other forms of government are flawed and we have excellence here everywhere you look. What other countries are great compared to America? With all its flaws America is the only country where you can dream of building spaceships, create multi billion dollar tech companies in less than a decade. Any ideology that forces…

> the only country where you can dream of building spaceships, create multi billion dollar tech companies in less than a decade And all you need is hard work, persistence, and a couple tens of millions burning a hole in your back pocket... and a legion of people, like you, who don't have that kind of capital to do the heavy lifting.

What percent of top tech companies were funded by multiple millions in personal or family money? We're on YC's website, which invests $500k in startups ($125k until just recently). I thought most startups were venture funded.

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#862

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And pointing to the decline of religion isn't very helpful for us atheists. I can't really buy into a religion I don't believe in for the sake of making society better. I'd rather try to make society better directly, I don't want to do a "noble lie". I'll gesture vaguely at "the suburbs". Low trust and alienation describes my childhood in a place where you needed a car to do anything and even when my parents let me w…

I'm 100% with you on being athiest and not wanting to support religion in my life but, one thing many religions provide is a social club. Every Sunday and for some religion even more days, you meet up with people socially. Churches have festivals, dances, classes, even singles events that you're encouraged to attend regularly and at which you'll likely make friends and possible more Vs outside where sure I can join a…

like the Masonic lodges?

Or how about any of the various modern fitness fads. Crossfit, for example.

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#863

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Whatever the cause I fully reject the lazy conclusion this is somehow women's fault. Of course! The problem is not women! The problem is media, schools, companies, everyone buying into this in a collective delusion. Men also think this, but unlike women we are even encouraged to strengthen these insane ideas that we are somehow inferior (gets imprisoned more often, less academic success despite supposedly being ext…

Right. It’s our fault, that is, men’s. We live in a society in which we we have disproportionately had the power. And this is the result. But I don’t think it’s really a gender thing, I think it’s a power and money thing. That is, I don’t think mainly white, rich and powerful men set out to disadvantage other men. I think they were more focused on advantaging themselves to the exclusion of everyone else. What I find…

> But I don’t think it’s really a gender thing, I think it’s a power and money thing. That is, I don’t think mainly white, rich and powerful men set out to disadvantage other men. I think they were more focused on advantaging themselves to the exclusion of everyone else.

> What I find interesting isn’t so much why men are doing poorly. Why are women doing better in certain areas?

You answered you own question. The """men in power""" spend more time helping women like them than helping men different from them (in terms of money and power).

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#864

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We are told america is the best place on earth with all the doors open to you to be rich. That all other forms of government are flawed and we have excellence here everywhere you look. What other countries are great compared to America? With all its flaws America is the only country where you can dream of building spaceships, create multi billion dollar tech companies in less than a decade. Any ideology that forces…

I was collecting FANG salaries in the states. I was in the 1% for my age, and most people would consider this the "American dream". I was miserable. I moved to Japan with a much lower income, but my standard of living is so much more higher. > you may not realize how powerful America's culture of individual freedom has impact on other countries Does individual freedom include not wearing masks? Does individual freedo…

what kind of work do you do in Japan?

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#865
post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Bay Area is a skewed microcosm of transplanted misfits. I'm not sure this is a great surprise to anyone. But the Bay Area is filled with people who: 1) Move cross country to live in the most bohemian region in the entire United States (San Francisco). 2) Often pursue a technology profession. An industry which has an entire nation of career guidance counselors steering introverts to work in. 3) Sticks with it when…

> wannabe high functioning alcoholics Heh, now I really want you to characterize LA, Vegas, Seattle, and Miami inhabitants in one sentence.

LA: Spent about two weeks in LA, don't remember having any significantly deep and meaningful conversations. They're probably all stuck in traffic.

Seattle: people are just like Europeans. Except Europeans have excellent food and are great company as soon as you pump some liquor into them.

In Europe fun time = alcohol time. This rule is observed very strictly.

Seattle manages to be glum post-ethanol.

Miami: Why would I go to Miami?

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#866

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We are told america is the best place on earth with all the doors open to you to be rich. That all other forms of government are flawed and we have excellence here everywhere you look. What other countries are great compared to America? With all its flaws America is the only country where you can dream of building spaceships, create multi billion dollar tech companies in less than a decade. Any ideology that forces…

With all its flaws America is the only country where you can dream of building spaceships... Pedantically, literally anyone anywhere can dream of building spaceships. But let's examine that claim on the basis of people who have actually done it. - Musk has, but he's South African. - Bezos crossed the Kármán line so he's done it, but he hasn't reached orbit yet so calling New Shepherd a 'spaceship' is a slightly dubio…

> Musk has, but he's South African.

Musk is a US citizen and he did all of this in the US. The point is about the opportunity provided by the country, not about where you were raised.

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#867
Men, especially if you are one of the outcasts, you should laugh at this. You don’t need any of the things promised by the path that has failed you. The correct move is to reject them before they reject you. Their world is crumbling, and yours is the Phoenix from their ashes. Doing things their way is giving up your one chance to live your life as the gift that was given to you. I don’t know what that is, but you’ll find it. I have seen that happen so many times, it’s certainty is only eclipsed by the ironclad guarantee of quiet despair that comes with living your life according to other people’s expectations. Even your judges are bored. Mostly I mean women, because you are biologically programmed to seek their approval, young and old alike. It doesn’t work. Live your life. Define your own values. Follow whatever interests you, and for no other reason. Really, seriously, it works. Of the people I grew up with, the only men of note today are the ones that dropped out, failed out, or otherwise lost their way and had to follow their own random path. And then, something miraculous happens, like a hobby website turns into an empire, or a car racing club turns into SpaceX, or an email list turns into a cryptocurrency, or even simpler, you like working outside with your buddies and you end up with a landscaping business. And you probably won’t know what that spark is yet, and that’s okay; you have a lot of time, as long as you don’t spend it on someone else. But if you do, wow, those years will disappear in your memory like you never even existed. I know only because I’ve done it both ways, probably poorly on all accounts, always trying to prove myself and shoulder way more responsibility for others than I could possibly bear. The opportunities I’ve passed up in exchange for self-imposed limitations were astonishing, like 11-digit market cap, and the guys that took them up were so casual and effortless about it, often not especially bright, sometimes remarkably not-so-bright, and certainly not disciplined, just unconcerned with anything else that might be considered a problem. It works, really. The neurotic achiever types that would be worried about all of those things in the article: unmarried staff engineers at some big company. I really wish that I could put names to the characters in this screed so that you would see exactly what I mean, maybe even get a little bit angry at the pressures you’ve succumbed to rather than pursuing self-actualization. One more thing. You don’t need any of the luxuries and conveniences that come with the elusive middle class lifestyle, and neither does a family, if you all practice extreme resourcefulness and overwhelming gratitude. The only thing you need is the right partner, maybe the most import decision of your life, especially in the avoidance of certain attitudes. You should have sympathy for the billionaire that lives in a toxic relationship, which is likely because they attract the worst. Imagine being one of the richest people on the planet, everybody wants to be you, but the person closest to you hates you, manipulates you, uses everything you have against you, and sometimes you think you’d rather be dead, but a lot of people depend on you to pretend that everything is great. Money only makes things worse. Practice gratitude also for the things you don’t have. Okay, enough of my soapbox. Thanks for reading.

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#868

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IQ has been declining for a while now - https://doi.org/10.1073/pnas.1718793115

For males, in Norway, from 1962-1991, and with a range of roughly three points. Got anything a little more widespread/recent to back up that claim? Here's what Our World in Data says: https://ourworldindata.org/intelligence

Others have linked some studies, but I wasn't aware that there's disagreement about this. I'll have to look into it more.

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#869

Of course. We treat females like they are a marginalized minority. My son’s school has a “Girls Can Code” program. All collateral features women and girls. (Boys are welcome though) I worked at a place where a C-level executive hosted company endorsed dinners at her home for female managers to mentor them for executive roles. If I setup a boys club for computers at school or hosted a men’s IT society at work, that wo…

Girls and women are marginalised in the area of technology. This site in particular has hosted terabytes of discussion of this problem. If you look back at some of the stories about conferences and why codes of conduct have been set up, you will see at least part of the publicly visible part of this. This is why it’s perfectly socially acceptable to set up a specific group to give women and girls a chance to learn sk…

> Complaining about people getting help in areas where they face a disproportionate struggle just seems unkind.

Women don't face a disproportionate struggle in tech. They are given more opportunities in tech than men are. There are uncountable scholarships, fellowships, hiring initiatives, mentoring initiatives, and all kinds of programs for women in tech - while there are none for men. There are many positions that are explicitly advertised as for women or for underrepresented minorities only. Companies and universities give preference to hiring and admitting women, even overtly. And finally, multiple studies showed that women are given preference in hiring for STEM positions.

The first step to help men is for us to admit that men are discriminated against, and it is very counterproductive when people pretend that is not the case.

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#870

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With all its flaws America is the only country where you can dream of building spaceships... Pedantically, literally anyone anywhere can dream of building spaceships. But let's examine that claim on the basis of people who have actually done it. - Musk has, but he's South African. - Bezos crossed the Kármán line so he's done it, but he hasn't reached orbit yet so calling New Shepherd a 'spaceship' is a slightly dubio…

> Musk has, but he's South African. Musk is a US citizen and he did all of this in the US. The point is about the opportunity provided by the country, not about where you were raised.

He moved to the US when he was 19. He didn't grow up with "the American Dream".
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