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The data are clear: The boys are not all right

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441–450 of 1001 posts

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#441

US-based cis-hetero white man here. The data reinforce the impression you get glancing at the headlines or spending a day out anywhere in America observing other men. Dare I say it even reinforces what I know from painful firsthand experience as a man, at the lowest points in my life. I was lucky though, with a supportive family who helped me through the confusing years of early adulthood. You can point to the declin…

> Whatever the cause I fully reject the lazy conclusion this is somehow women's fault. Of course! The problem is not women! The problem is media, schools, companies, everyone buying into this in a collective delusion. Men also think this, but unlike women we are even encouraged to strengthen these insane ideas that we are somehow inferior (gets imprisoned more often, less academic success despite supposedly being ext…

Right. It’s our fault, that is, men’s. We live in a society in which we we have disproportionately had the power. And this is the result.

But I don’t think it’s really a gender thing, I think it’s a power and money thing. That is, I don’t think mainly white, rich and powerful men set out to disadvantage other men. I think they were more focused on advantaging themselves to the exclusion of everyone else.

What I find interesting isn’t so much why men are doing poorly. Why are women doing better in certain areas? Although progress has been made towards institutional equity, men still have the advantage in most places. Why are women succeeding despite that?

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#443
post #294

My observation is that we are going to have a radical rebalancing of who reproduces and who doesn’t. Lot of men and women who are generally not too motivated to seek out a companion, lose weight, put in the work to make it happen just…won’t pass on genetics. Children are a lot of work and energy. I’m highly introverted and high earning. My wife was the aggressor in my case. She pretty much made it all happen. I think…

A note on fitness. Any pressure I've had to lose weight or whatnot has come from me . All female partners have said that they don't care about my weight, and some actually like some belly to rest on. That said, they have commented favourably on other physical features, and I'm not particularly overweight. I say all this just to try and fight the idea that crops up that if you're male and don't fit some jacked or "Cha…

"Any pressure I've had to lose weight or whatnot has come from me. All female partners have said that they don't care about my weight, and some actually like some belly to rest on."

Same.

I work out as a hobby and for psychological hygeine, i.e. to keep myself disciplined and just feel better.

Oddly when I started dating my current girlfriend she thought my lack of a 'dad-bod' might be too much of a red flag.

Doesn't seem to be the case almost 5 months later.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#444
post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like at least being allowed to state that things are as bad as they are (outside anonymous forums like this) would be a great step towards getting closer to solving things. Right now we're still in a state where we have to keep a faked optimism everywhere we go which is suffocating.

What is so bad? IME, you can easily ignore all the fatalism (popular to feel on every topic) - pretend it isn't there - and do what you want.

An economy that increasingly gets worse and worse for newer generations? The destruction of the planet? The decline of Western Democracy? I guess if you bury your head in the sand and never pay attention to anything then I guess it's not that bad.

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#445

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting. I'm just one person, but: I've enjoyed stable employment as a programmer since I was 23, and my teenage years and early 20s were easily my most socially (and romantically) active, and I rarely felt lonely then. I've felt most lonely in my late 20s and early 30s. I sometimes wonder if my career destroyed my ability to make and keep friends.

I think late 20s is when most people lose touch w/ remnants of their college social circle if they're not naturally outgoing. Usually everyone has moved away or married off at this point. It's fairly normal.

I would say even the extroverted outgoing people lose touch with alot of their past friends. It happens to everyone

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#446

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the obesity problem is linked to the fact that many people have to work 60 hours a week to survive and don't have the time/energy to get in shape. Capitalism has taken a large swath of people out of the dating game just due to working to survive.

People work 10% fewer hours now than in the 1960s, but the obesity rate has gone up from 13% in that time period to 36%. The obesity crisis is IMO more related to what we eat, and an increasingly sedentary lifestyle. https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/AVHWPEUSA065NRUG

Total hours worked in the US has DOUBLED since then.

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/B4701C0A222NBEA

And more work is done part-time(usually by those are unable to work full time jobs)

https://alfred.stlouisfed.org/series?seid=B4701C0A222NBEA&ut...

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#447

The crisis, if there is one, is that society has less use for males who have IQs between 90-105 or so, who cannot cut it in STEM, and who are finding it hard to cope with increasingly competitive economic conditions and higher overall costs like rent, and is why many men are delaying family formation or moving back with parents (but also due to careerism for women). Men are just dropping out rather than doing low-pai…

I'm 33, Ive got a fairly high IQ, make $340k in a STEM field and enough to retire tomorrow, I'm not unattractive, and put a huge amount of effort over many years into online dating. I've pretty much given up on dating. I have a total inability to find anyone I'm interested in that is interested in me. When I was younger and I wanted to go to bars and get drunk and be an idiot I had plenty of attractive sexual partner…

If online dating isn't working for you but bars did, then why not head back to the bars? (You can always drink soda water)

I know it sounds a bit stupidly obvious, but do the stuff that works!

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#448

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the obesity problem is linked to the fact that many people have to work 60 hours a week to survive and don't have the time/energy to get in shape. Capitalism has taken a large swath of people out of the dating game just due to working to survive.

Ehhhh... I don't know that capitalism can be blamed for personal irresponsibility. I'd say it's more of a motivation / knowledge thing. You don't have to live in the gym to get in shape. I spend about 4.5 hours per week total. Even when I've been in the very rare 70-80 hour/week death march, I could take an hour out of my day to go to the gym and lift. Similarly, dieting is not an activity, more so the absence of one…

Okay. And now add any of the following, or a combination, to that situation:

* Ill partner or family members to take care of * Child(ren) * Studying * Long travel times * Irregular working times * Poor upbringing food wise * Stress * Sleep deprivation * etc

Is it still so easy then? That pizza tastes good and is real comforting.

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#449

> we must stop defining masculinity as necessarily toxic I know "toxic masculinity" is a dumb academic term that never should have become a slogan, but Andrew, Mr. Yang, that's not what it means. It's like "async functions". Not all functions are async. It's okay if a function is sync. Adjectives modify nouns to make them refer to a specific subset. It's fine to be masculine. I don't know what it means to be masculin…

There's a difference between "toxic masculinity" and "asynchronous functions". Asynchronous functions are still functions, but there's nothing masculine about "toxic masculinity".

You're right. It's a little hard to dehumanize a societal cohort by name-calling them with "asynchronous functions".

It just doesn't roll off the tongue.

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#450
post #392

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And having very few adults to talk to, no status, no career advancement (in fact, the opposite), and little recognition.

Eh? There are plenty of other parents and nannies at the park taking their kids out, if you want to talk to someone.

Nannies are of a different social class. Most middle class people are much less likely to have real relationships with people who can’t relate to their problems. Same as rich people tend to have rich friends.

“Talking to someone” isn’t community. Colleagues provide an ersatz community for people who don’t have a real one in their life. You need a steady cast of characters and ideally repeated, purposeful interaction.

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