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The data are clear: The boys are not all right

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Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#301

Post by N1H1L »

ytwombly wrote: post #150

US-based cis-hetero white man here. The data reinforce the impression you get glancing at the headlines or spending a day out anywhere in America observing other men. Dare I say it even reinforces what I know from painful firsthand experience as a man, at the lowest points in my life. I was lucky though, with a supportive family who helped me through the confusing years of early adulthood. You can point to the declin…

The purpose of a man's life is meaning and the search for it. For years, centuries even, this meaning in a man's life was provided by being a provider. This order was enforced through society. And you can use society and religion interchangeably here because the distinction between the two is only a century or two old. And this order enforced the role of a child-bearer and nurturer to women. Obviously, such an order was very restrictive (especially to women) and that people would rebel against is easy to comprehend.

This state of affairs continued till the 1980s. Since then, multiple forces have led to a perfect storm - where men have no meaning/purpose in their life, and the desire to have meaning often signals that you want to go back to that older society.

But that's wrong. The people who desire to go back are actually who are rebelling; the rest of the men are either locked up in prison, or overdosing on opioids, or being incels or numbing themselves with video games. The failure of modern liberalism to acknowledge this is basically being an ostrich while the forest is on fire.

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#302

Post by wahern »

analog31 wrote: post #260
pc86 wrote: post #161

Is there a generational thing that causes people to say "data is" vs. "data are" in this context? Because to me "data are" sounds so egregiously wrong it takes me seconds to focus on anything else.

I once wrote an article and the editor changed all "data are" to "data is." I asked her if I was being old fashioned and she said yes.

> I asked her if I was being old fashioned and she said yes.

Google Ngram seems to agree: https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=data+is%2Cdata...

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#303

Post by spywaregorilla »

UncleMeat wrote: post #77
commandlinefan wrote: post #29

> As men’s unemployment rises, their romantic prospects decline. Conversely: as young men's potential future employability rises, their romantic prospects also decline. That is - the men who'll grow up to be stable and reliable have lonely teenage years.

Is this actually true? This feels a bit like a post-facto generalization from specific situations. "I was a nerd and didn't go on dates. Being a nerd got me into software and now I make a lot of money. Therefore people who are on the path to high earning are not getting dates." My experience has been that a lot of the stereotypical jocks ended up in finance and are doing quite well and that software is no longer domi…

People who have strong social skills will tend to do well. The premise seems very doubtful.

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#304

Post by urthor »

justinpombrio wrote: post #118
rajeshp1986 wrote: post #87

I went to a local college few days back and I noticed that there were more girls than boys. I think part of the reason is due to high college debt many young men are choosing to take jobs and skipping college all together. This will translate to less men in the knowledge based/corporate jobs.

There have been more women than men in college in the US since the 80s. It varies from college to college and from subject to subject (e.g. STEM is much more male, MIT more male, humanities-focused colleges more female). A graph from a random internet search result: https://educationalpolicy.org/hello-world/

There's a huge body of education research about this, this has been the case for of years.

There's even data from the pre-1900s, especially in the primary school years.

Only recently have we stripped away a lot of the sexism however, providing a successful transition to higher education.

It all boils down to:

Girls are more likely to do their damn homework when the teacher tells them.

Therefore they out-perform in formal education.

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#305

Post by layoric »

pc86 wrote: post #161

Is there a generational thing that causes people to say "data is" vs. "data are" in this context? Because to me "data are" sounds so egregiously wrong it takes me seconds to focus on anything else.

I get stuck on it as well, I'm probably wrong but to me "data" is the collective noun like "team" or "family". This is why I think it sounds wrong to use "Data are" when it is being used as the singular, eg the "data" being clear. If the data was unclear or split you would usually use something else to contextualize the difference. Eg, the time-series data disagrees with our event data.

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#306

Post by mynameishere »

bestouff wrote: post #164
emerged wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

White, straight male in my 40s who worked hard to build a decent career. The feeling that this culture hates me based on each of those categories, completely without knowing me, is hard to ignore much longer without a response. The feeling comes from being on the losing side of every action the government and popular culture takes. Being told that you can’t even be involved in a conversation about that fact.

White, straight male (too far) into in my 40s, but in France: for now I don't witness that. There is overall concern for women and minorities, but no hate towards my "category". Reading what happens elsewhere, I'm happy to live in a more cohesive society.

Just wait then, or pay attention. France is as doomed as any other Western country. Zemmour doesn't stand a chance, and is probably a fraud anyway.

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#307

Post by _bkr9 »

R0b0t1 wrote: post #287
zozbot234 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Being awkward around women in High School is a given, but as a thirty-something it can be profoundly uncomfortable and off-putting. Males should be fixing that by making some female friends. Don't go the "creepy incel who hates all women and Chads" route.

The problem is people, including women, get to pick their friends. If you're branded as awkward or ugly all women will avoid you leading to a self-perpetuating cycle. Since women can pick their friends and generally pick gregarious, outgoing, and socially competent men for their friend groups, they ignore and do not understand the type of man who is labelled an incel.

No, these are false premises. All of my female partners have had the feedback from someone that "you're just like a guy". The so called "girl next door" wearing sweats, and rocking a bad-hair-day ponytail because she's late for her lab may be way hotter when she dresses up than the median film actress. She may be an awesome friend. She may be a frickin' monster in bed, without giving off any porn-star vibes.

Incels are fundamentally working off a broken model of women, attraction, dating, and sex.

EDUT> Not getting "Stacy" is making them crazy, but they don't realize that they don't want Stacy. Stacy's frumpy-seeming neighbour will rock their world.

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#308

Post by urthor »

spywaregorilla wrote: post #303
UncleMeat wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this actually true? This feels a bit like a post-facto generalization from specific situations. "I was a nerd and didn't go on dates. Being a nerd got me into software and now I make a lot of money. Therefore people who are on the path to high earning are not getting dates." My experience has been that a lot of the stereotypical jocks ended up in finance and are doing quite well and that software is no longer domi…

People who have strong social skills will tend to do well. The premise seems very doubtful.

https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2763720

36% higher lifetime income for joining a college fraternity.

The numbers don't lie.

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#309

Post by hwers »

ytwombly wrote: post #150

US-based cis-hetero white man here. The data reinforce the impression you get glancing at the headlines or spending a day out anywhere in America observing other men. Dare I say it even reinforces what I know from painful firsthand experience as a man, at the lowest points in my life. I was lucky though, with a supportive family who helped me through the confusing years of early adulthood. You can point to the declin…

I feel like at least being allowed to state that things are as bad as they are (outside anonymous forums like this) would be a great step towards getting closer to solving things. Right now we're still in a state where we have to keep a faked optimism everywhere we go which is suffocating.

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#310

Post by drewzero1 »

worik wrote: post #115
ok_dad wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally, I would love to quit working and take care of my family at home. I find much more joy in that than working a programming career. I think a lot of men have been conditioned to think we have to be the provider much like women have been conditioned to think they have to be a homemaker.

I did. It was great. Until my children grew up and I rejoined the workforce. That has been a struggle.

I think this is unfortunately a common issue among those who leave the workforce to raise children; looking back, it certainly seems to match my mother's experience. I'm preparing to follow that path as well but hoping to keep up by doing small projects or piecework at home when I can.
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