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The data are clear: The boys are not all right

washingtonpost.com

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Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#21

Post by coldtea »

frankbreetz wrote: post #5

>>Median wages for men have declined since 1990 in real terms. Roughly one-third of men are either unemployed or out of the workforce. I wonder how much of this is because more women are joining the workforce. If men are leaving the workforce by their own free will because their wife is working and they are staying home with the kids, both of these facts could be true, but seems like a win in both gender equality ter…

>I wonder how much of this is because more women are joining the workforce. If men are leaving the workforce by their own free will because their wife is working and they are staying home with the kids, both of these facts could be true

Not what's happening. For one, marriages are decreasing too and marriage age increases.

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#22

Post by AlgorithmicTime »

decafninja wrote: post #4

Possible unpopular opinion, but my wife and I want just one kid, and would greatly, greatly, prefer a daughter for reasons that include some mentioned in this article. I feel a son would be so much harder to raise in today's world.

No post body was provided.

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#23

Post by rootusrootus »

trentnix wrote: post #10
Santosh83 wrote: post #2

Effect of dwindling & non-existent male role models and more importantly, fathers.

Yep. In all the talk of racial or gender privilege, the most beneficial privilege a person can enjoy is the benefits of a loving, supportive, traditional two-parent household (there is insufficient data on non-traditional two-parent households). You can see a direct correlation in outcomes when comparing children that emerged from two-parent households over those that emerge from single-parent households. But because…

I wonder how much of that comes down to 1.5-2x the income compared to a single parent household, versus the beneficial effect of two role models.

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#24

Post by trentnix »

junga wrote: post #19
trentnix wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. In all the talk of racial or gender privilege, the most beneficial privilege a person can enjoy is the benefits of a loving, supportive, traditional two-parent household (there is insufficient data on non-traditional two-parent households). You can see a direct correlation in outcomes when comparing children that emerged from two-parent households over those that emerge from single-parent households. But because…

Since you mentioned data: You sure do have data to back your claims?

A Google search will provide lots more examples, but here’s an example:

https://www.bbc.com/news/education-47057787.amp

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#25

Post by epx »

decafninja wrote: post #4

Possible unpopular opinion, but my wife and I want just one kid, and would greatly, greatly, prefer a daughter for reasons that include some mentioned in this article. I feel a son would be so much harder to raise in today's world.

I have a son, and am moderately optimistic this has peaked already.

As the other commenter said, we see different families in very different mindsets.

I have been personally affected by sexism type B: was expected to work, to be a provider someday, to pay my own way to university, if you want a car you buy it, etc. etc. My sister had the second family car at disposal and the tuition was paid for. There was this undercurrent interpretation of feminism that "women will eventually suffer so they should be pampered when possible".

There were other factors at play: I have a tendency to self-indulgence, my sister does not, so it is prima facie difficult to separate what was proper, individualized upbringing and what was sexism. But sexism was a part; many male friends of the same generation have the same complaint and some could be better off today had they have more support at home.

Then there is this relative of mine, that simply threw his daughters out at 18, since they are supposed to get a wealthy boyfriend and marry rich, so they don't need any further support. BTW they are disowned, too.

This is sexism type A, and make it a big A.

Not necessary to say this strategy did not end well: both are stuck with less-than-optimal partners and careers. We are in 2022 and a nice, wealthy and rational guy won't commit to someone without a career and finances in order.

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#26

Post by Spooky23 »

Of course. We treat females like they are a marginalized minority.

My son’s school has a “Girls Can Code” program. All collateral features women and girls. (Boys are welcome though)

I worked at a place where a C-level executive hosted company endorsed dinners at her home for female managers to mentor them for executive roles.

If I setup a boys club for computers at school or hosted a men’s IT society at work, that wouldn’t end well.

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#27

Post by ramesh31 »

Men's comparative advantage, throughout human history, has always been their physical strength. It was the one thing a man could count on to provide value to society. That is no longer the case in our modern economy. You need intelligence, emotional intellect, and analytical skills. All of which men and women are on an equal footing at. So when you remove the ability to generate a viable income through physical labor, it's pretty obvious why a good portion of men are now left without anything useful to contribute.

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#28

Post by ddoolin »

rootusrootus wrote: post #23
trentnix wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. In all the talk of racial or gender privilege, the most beneficial privilege a person can enjoy is the benefits of a loving, supportive, traditional two-parent household (there is insufficient data on non-traditional two-parent households). You can see a direct correlation in outcomes when comparing children that emerged from two-parent households over those that emerge from single-parent households. But because…

I wonder how much of that comes down to 1.5-2x the income compared to a single parent household, versus the beneficial effect of two role models.

IMO this is a big factor but it really depends on the absolute value. Two low-income earners is not going to make a big difference, but two middle- or high-income workers is going to be a substantial improvement, although they still need to be 1) present and 2) dedicated.

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#29

Post by commandlinefan »

> As men’s unemployment rises, their romantic prospects decline.

Conversely: as young men's potential future employability rises, their romantic prospects also decline. That is - the men who'll grow up to be stable and reliable have lonely teenage years.

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#30

Post by salawat »

coldtea wrote: post #21
frankbreetz wrote: post #5

>>Median wages for men have declined since 1990 in real terms. Roughly one-third of men are either unemployed or out of the workforce. I wonder how much of this is because more women are joining the workforce. If men are leaving the workforce by their own free will because their wife is working and they are staying home with the kids, both of these facts could be true, but seems like a win in both gender equality ter…

> I wonder how much of this is because more women are joining the workforce. If men are leaving the workforce by their own free will because their wife is working and they are staying home with the kids, both of these facts could be true Not what's happening. For one, marriages are decreasing too and marriage age increases.

Legal marriage is decreasing. You can draw on more benefits as single from the System. Legal marriage also leads to pathological complications in terms of seperation in some states.
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