861–870 of 892 posts
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We can start with the contention that that isn't true. Even for a new user, the change is going to bring with it a bunch of new bugs because the new code is new, and invalidate all of the solutions to problems that people can search for on the internet until the new thing is as old as the old thing (at which point somebody tries to replace it again). Also, "users" are "people" and the average adult lifespan (18-78) i…
> And then if the new users still want to use the old thing you've got a pretty good red flag that you messed it up. Your new UI might be garbage, but there's no red flag here. A new user will likely need to make use of tutorials, troubleshooting, and other help online; most or all of which will be based on your old UI (and possibly coupled with comments like, 'Don't use the new UI, it's trash. Here is how to switch.…
Recently ran into this issue when submitting an app to Google Play. New interface didn’t even match up to Google’s own instructions. Frustrating.
Really? You are just doing it to provide free software with no returns for you? I find this hard to believe.
You aren’t doing it because you wanted to explore a particular technical area that you are unable to explore at a day job, pad one’s resume, impress your developer friends, or help maintain the software as part of your day job?
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I'm a bit confused about your post. Why would Xorg users care about XWayland, or new releases or contributor patches? Those who contribute to Xorg and feel stuck could step up to maintain it, if they wish. (Don't they do it already?) If they don't wish to maintain it, maybe their contributions are a waste of everyone's time? (Then again, maybe they get paid to do it, in which case it's their money-misery trade-off to…
> Why would Xorg users care about XWayland XWayland is Xorg. An Xwayland fix is an Xorg fix. An Xwayland bug is an Xorg bug. > Those who contribute to Xorg and feel stuck could step up to maintain it, if they wish. (Don't they do it already?) No one maintains Xorg anymore, so there is no one to review patches, merge and roll new releases with them. There's a huge difference between wanting to fix a bit and becoming a…
You say "now or never" but I've no idea what you're talking about. Your reply makes zero sense. If there's any trouble in the future, I'm sure someone will step up, as I said.
People using software that breaks with Wayland keep to their existing window system. News at X11.
No one minds what you use, it’s the people who go online and post complete lies about what wayland is and what it is capable of. And then they feel entitled to tell other people that they are wasting their time on wayland instead of working on X12.
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He's saying, literally, > So my new approach is “fuck you”. None of the Wayland detractors have a clue. Lumping everyone who may not have a rosy view of Wayland together. There's a good comment by an (alleged) pentester mentioning how Wayland doesn't really buy you that much. He's right. The bigger issue is lack of isolation within a gid. I can still debug your terminal and try to get your root password.
But in the same comment thread by the pentester, it turns out that what wayland does is a necessary step for security that X without embedded X sessions simply lacks. It is not sufficient but noone said so and it would be stupid to even assume that eg. a kernel bug can’t be used for escalation just because someone runs Wayland.
Err, no, a bunch of people who bother talking about Wayland propose it as a solution to everything. Now that they are being called out on it they are walking back their positions.
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> dictatorial power over 100s of users GNOME has tens of millions of users. I do understand your sentiment. I don't like GNOME myself. But there are alternatives. If you don't like it, try using something else, contributing patches with configurable behavior or maintaining a fork. FLOSS maintainers are a rare breed. We as a community need to find ways to not burn them out. Even if you have millions of happy users, ju…
> GNOME has tens of millions of users. I was referring to the hundreds of users who "reacted" to the bugzilla thread on this issue, but I'm sure it effects many many more. > I do understand your sentiment. I don't like GNOME myself. But there are alternatives. If you don't like it, try using something else, contributing patches with configurable behavior or maintaining a fork. Generally I don't use GNOME, on this occ…
> they strip away features that existed before, and completely ignore and talk down to users who tell them that the feature is very useful and much wanted.
I'm under the impression that GNOME strives for similar UX to macOS. This behavior sounds just like Apple to me, so maybe it's just the correct way to do it.
I've used both macOS and GNOME as daily drivers and got frustrated with both. I'd certainly get frustrated if an employer forced me to use unsuitable equipment (and some have in the past). But that's not the fault of GNOME developers.
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Your calculation doesn't take into account the time savings for brand new users. Since they don't have to unlearn anything, they start saving the time immediately. Not saying it is right or wrong, but a lot of the upsetting changes for existing users are for the benefit of new users.
We can start with the contention that that isn't true. Even for a new user, the change is going to bring with it a bunch of new bugs because the new code is new, and invalidate all of the solutions to problems that people can search for on the internet until the new thing is as old as the old thing (at which point somebody tries to replace it again). Also, "users" are "people" and the average adult lifespan (18-78) i…
That doesn’t add up at all... you’re implying that users are gained and lost at exactly the same rate, consistently, over a span of at least 30 years.
It doesn’t invalidate your other point about competition, but it’s a flawed argument to base any reasoning upon.
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Yes! I hate making videos for that reason. It is action, save, action, save, etc... Ultra painful. And anytime I hit flow, I am either gambling by not saving and disturbing flow, or leaving flow trying to save... agreed.
This is super off topic, but I also find working with video UIs frustrating for this reason. For my own needs, I have been working on a video editing tool that has a workflow more similar to web dev. E.g. describe changes in text files and render the final video on the command line. https://github.com/andykais/ffmpeg-templates
Scriptable may find a lot of use.
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Serious question: when are there not alternatives? The point being made here is not that it always must be stable. It is all about how often stability is not a priority when it could and or should be. And in the no alternative scenario, it can be compelling to continue to ignore robustness to get growth and lock in. When that happens, stability, robustness often stay in the back seat for a large fraction of the produ…
> when are there not alternatives? Example: Steam cloud save. Countless time I have to force quit Steam's background service because Cyberpunk 2077 and GTA V freeze while saving. Steam doesn't show the launch game button, even though the game is killed from task manager. There are no heartbeat like mechanism to keep in check the game process state. And there are no alternative to launch the game that I bought from st…
It absolutely is a feature.
Guess the externalities problem crops up in this context.
How to actualize those costs better so the equation makes more sense?
And yes! I hate lock in viscerally. Frankly, will avoid it at very considerable cost.