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As a US Navy fighter pilot, I witnessed unidentified anomalous phenomena

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Re: As a US Navy fighter pilot, I witnessed unidentified anomalous phenomena

#831

Post by scotty79 »

nprateem wrote: post #793
scotty79 wrote: post #789

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You take the word of few random soldiers and some output of some devices over accumulated effort of generations of scientists who brought us all of technology and you accuse others of hubris? It's quite a hubris to say that something is evidence of violation of known laws of physics on the basis of personal direct observation and output of devices that you find trustworthy only because known laws of physics do work a…

Every new discovery, by definition, begins with new observations. The word you're clinging to is "known". We've been spectacularly wrong in the past (the sun orbited the earth, which was flat, etc.). As for history, there's no reason to suspect they would have made their presence known in any undoubtable manner. They may have been here just to observe. > Every observation that we ever managed to explain was explained…

> They may have been here just to observe.

Ah, so now we don't just assume alien tech on Earth. Now we need to also assume aliens intent? Are you sure you are not adding epicycles to your model of reality?

> “Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.” Clarke

And yet no technology we ever seen actually IS magic or of alien origin.

I'm not sure what's your point is? That alien tech might look like magic? Sure. But we have never observed any magic either in our world. So they both belong squarely in the world of dreams not reality.

Re: As a US Navy fighter pilot, I witnessed unidentified anomalous phenomena

#832

Post by nirvgorilla »

dtx1 wrote: post #820
nirvgorilla wrote: post #816

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hi I said voice. Why haven't you added and called yet? Oh, a conspiracy theorist keyboard warrior who can't orally defend the BULLCRAP they spew on the internet in real-time voice chat. Funny how that works.

> Funny how that works. You forgot to add an address where to send you an invoice for my time. Funny how that works

[flagged]

Re: As a US Navy fighter pilot, I witnessed unidentified anomalous phenomena

#833

Post by metadat »

l33tman wrote: post #819

FWIW, the guy who wrote this article, Ryan Graves, is one of the aviators who flew and witnessed these, in addition to David Frevor (also mentioned elsewhere in this thread). Ryan was interviewed by Lex Fridman, a very good talk I think that felt balanced on the subject.

For convenience, here's a link:

https://youtube.com/watch?v=qLDp-aYnR1Y

p.s.: l33tman, including a link to referenced materials will add greater value to your comments and often be appreciated by others.

Re: As a US Navy fighter pilot, I witnessed unidentified anomalous phenomena

#834

Post by pmarreck »

ceejayoz wrote: post #167
snickerbockers wrote: post #145

There's a real problem with people being close-minded towards anything that seems fantastical. This includes scientists and other professionals who ought to know better. Obviously it's unscientific to jump to conclusions and assume that anything that doesn't make sense must be aliens or magic or whatever but at the same time, it's also unscientific to ignore physical observations just because they seem like something…

It is important to be open minded to the possibility of mundane explanations for these observations.

Of course, but at what point does this become a futile exercise tantamount to "gaslighting"?

You know, "you didn't actually see what you think you saw."

Re: As a US Navy fighter pilot, I witnessed unidentified anomalous phenomena

#835

Post by marmetio »

likeabbas wrote: post #779
marmetio wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have AARO for addressing the threat. Why is that not good enough?

The government works for the citizens. We citizens should be able to know what is happening above our heads.

They already responded to FOIA requests, briefed Congress publicly and privately, and announced AARO when they didn't have to. We're pretty well-informed, and Congress has some oversight. It's very ordinary.

Re: As a US Navy fighter pilot, I witnessed unidentified anomalous phenomena

#836

Post by likeabbas »

marmetio wrote: post #835
likeabbas wrote: post #779

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The government works for the citizens. We citizens should be able to know what is happening above our heads.

They already responded to FOIA requests, briefed Congress publicly and privately, and announced AARO when they didn't have to. We're pretty well-informed, and Congress has some oversight. It's very ordinary.

This subject is anything but ordinary.

The former Deputy Secretary of Defense for Intelligence wrote a blog alleging that there are black projects hidden within DoD contractors that are reverse engineering non-human intelligence craft. He's presented enough evidence to congress for them to add specific legislation to bring these programs to light.

Re: As a US Navy fighter pilot, I witnessed unidentified anomalous phenomena

#837

Post by likeabbas »

scotty79 wrote: post #829
likeabbas wrote: post #799

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The majority of scientists thought flight of large mechanical objects was impossible until the Wright brothers did it https://northeastern.digication.com/a_declaration_of_impossi... It's hilarious how you assume that the summary of the collective ideas of scientists today know everything that is physically possible when there are many examples throughout history where the collective understanding of physics has been…

> [...] there are many examples throughout history where the collective understanding of physics has been wrong and it takes unique individuals to prove them wrong. Yes. And every time the correct solution eventually reached was not 'alien technology at work'. > There is data to suggest the objects are moving at speeds that defy our current understanding of physics. That nullifies all the science since Newton, includ…

> And every time the correct solution eventually reached was not 'alien technology at work'.

Then why not let these scientists reach that conclusion if that ends up being the same.

> That nullifies all the science since Newton, including Newton.

Einstein nullified Newton's science. That's the way science works. We know Newtonian physics and General Relativity are incomplete. There's significant evidence that we are witnessing something that is breaking our current known laws of physics. With more data we can rule out faulty sensors, but we still need to study this.

Why are you so adamant about not studying something interesting? If we were all like you then science would never advance.

Re: As a US Navy fighter pilot, I witnessed unidentified anomalous phenomena

#838

Post by kypro »

DangitBobby wrote: post #399
kypro wrote: post #246

I don't get it. In recent years a number of people who I know and I view to be very intelligent have started talk to me about how they believe reports of aliens trolling US fighter pilots and that the US government is covering this up. And I'm aware that "trolling" might be viewed as an uncharitable way of looking at it, but I actually think that's the most accurate description of what's being reported in these sight…

One hypothesis for why keep it hidden: if true it's existentially terrifying and we can't do shit about it anyway, so why worry everyone? Even if you don't agree with the logic, it's not a difficult viewpoint to imagine.

> Even if you don't agree with the logic, it's not a difficult viewpoint to imagine.

So is it a secret all governments and all fighter pilots worldwide are keeping? And if so why are they still keeping this secret when there are seemingly no consequences in leaking top secret information about the most significant discovery in human history to the media?

Of course, the alternative here is that just a select few US fighter pilots have experienced sightings like this. And that might make sense because if that's was case then presumably the US government doesn't have indisputable proof that these sightings are extra terrestrial in nature at all, so there is no top secret UFO reports. That would explain why these pilots are free to share their BS about aliens to the press, but it would be unproven BS, and not some top secret government cover up.

But seeing as you believe it is a government cover up, do you believe SETI and other orgs looking for ET life are a psyops or just extremely incompetent compared to fighter pilots?

And why is it always US fighter jet pilots making these claims anyway? Has any passenger onboard all of the commercial Boeing 747 flights ever made a tictac observation? And for that matter has any Boeing 747 pilot ever made these observations? Has any air traffic control operator ever seen anything suspicious on their monitoring systems, or do the aliens just like trolling the US military specifically?

Am I crazy, or do you honestly not see how none of this makes sense if you're thinking about it from a reasonable standpoint? I understand there could potentially be an explanation for all of this but you really have to do mental gymnastics for any of it to make sense.

Re: As a US Navy fighter pilot, I witnessed unidentified anomalous phenomena

#839

Post by likeabbas »

scotty79 wrote: post #831
nprateem wrote: post #793

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every new discovery, by definition, begins with new observations. The word you're clinging to is "known". We've been spectacularly wrong in the past (the sun orbited the earth, which was flat, etc.). As for history, there's no reason to suspect they would have made their presence known in any undoubtable manner. They may have been here just to observe. > Every observation that we ever managed to explain was explained…

> They may have been here just to observe. Ah, so now we don't just assume alien tech on Earth. Now we need to also assume aliens intent? Are you sure you are not adding epicycles to your model of reality? > “Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.” Clarke And yet no technology we ever seen actually IS magic or of alien origin. I'm not sure what's your point is? That alien tech might loo…

> Ah, so now we don't just assume alien tech on Earth.

No one has assumed anything. Credible scientists are just putting this out as a possible explanation. The investigation is still underway.

Re: As a US Navy fighter pilot, I witnessed unidentified anomalous phenomena

#840

Post by likeabbas »

revscat wrote: post #423
likeabbas wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like the other commenter said, there’s a huge stigma amongst military officials to not report these events because the stigma is a career ended. That’s why the government added legislation mandating the DoD create a channel for these events to be reported. Diving a little deeper, if the military suspected these aircraft were foreign adversary then this would be big news. But they don’t. They believe it’s something el…

Same in astronomy and cosmology. Your career will be over if you do not hold a very specific view, or at least hold it publicly.

Exactly. We need this stigma to stop. There should be no reason to not study interesting data, and the data is very interesting.
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