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How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

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Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#811

Post by rickdeckard »

watt wrote: post #801
rickdeckard wrote: post #773

As I keep reading about "no prior warning", "effective immediately", "nothing being planned ahead", etc.: 1. This regulation was SIGNED in Dec.2024 [0], the average lead-time for the final document is 13-17 MONTHS, so work on this regulation started in 2023. 2. The law went into effect in Feb.2025 and is only being ENFORCED from Aug.2026 [0] 3. The owner of this regulation is the Directorate-General for Environment (…

When a law like this comes into effect it should have 3-5 year transition period. It does not matter how long they deliberated, there is time when law goes into effect, and then the countdown to enforcement should start, but it must not be less than 3 years, preferably 5.

quite an arbitrary number, what's the objective foundation of this?

3-5 years is also longer than (most) election cycles in the local governments, so the representatives working on the regulation may not be in government anymore and are more busy fighting the aftermath of enforced regulation already decided in the PRIOR administration

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#812

Post by tgsovlerkhgsel »

HtmlProgrammer wrote: post #772
m000 wrote: post #747

I've been following the PPWR in news and social media. Everybody is lamenting about the micro-enterprises that see their business squashed, but mostly because they are involved in one. I do empathize with them and really want to see these small business surviving and thriving. But then, in the context of discussion, nobody asks what matters: Cui bono? To me, this looks like a direct handout to Amazon and similar (big…

This will directly stop Irish based people shopping on Amazon as the Irish Amazon is useless and everyone buys from Amazon UK. These fees are going to change that big time so it’s not all in favor of Amazon

If Amazon was competent and saw that as a problem (doubtful, given how hard it is to filter items that actually ship to your country, as opposed to claiming to do so but then on the checkout page tell you otherwise), they could likely bulk-import the items to Ireland, then ship from there.

I assume Aliexpress is ~~going to do~~ doing [1] exactly that to bypass the 3 EUR fee. I wonder if the packaging rules are a shortsighted attempt at sabotaging Chinese sellers without making it obvious.

[1] https://www.reddit.com/r/Aliexpress/comments/1ukojbr/i_place...

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#814

Post by raverbashing »

m000 wrote: post #747

I've been following the PPWR in news and social media. Everybody is lamenting about the micro-enterprises that see their business squashed, but mostly because they are involved in one. I do empathize with them and really want to see these small business surviving and thriving. But then, in the context of discussion, nobody asks what matters: Cui bono? To me, this looks like a direct handout to Amazon and similar (big…

Actually the strongest lobbyists for the €3 fee were European companies https://www.reddit.com/r/Aliexpress/comments/1ugpyoe/i_dug_a...

(but yes it's "conveniently good" for Amazon as well)

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#815

Post by ShadowOfThePit »

teiferer wrote: post #767
badestrand wrote: post #700

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean, it's good to have _even more_ bad regulations? Or rather, if a little bit of X is bad, why would you want more of X?

If you look at what I responded to then you see that it was about every country having their own rules. "More EU" would mean harmonizing them in the sense that they are all the same and you'd have a single regulatory body. I don't see how less EU would make this particular problem any easier. It would certainly give you an even harder time to deal with 20+ states that all impose import bureaucracy. That's exactly wha…

What about the argument of these regulations not existing in the first place were it not for the EU?

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#816

Post by UnwrapComment »

svobodamartin wrote: post #544

History will see last years as EU that turned Europe -suicidal for own energy industry and economy via green deal without real impact for the world (see EU vs World/ China CO2 emisions chart) -demographically/socially suicidal via open borders and stupidly generous social benefits for immigrants instead of supporting own families -going back in time via overregulation of every aspect of our lives -becoming police sta…

> -demographically/socially suicidal via open borders and stupidly generous social benefits for immigrants instead of supporting own families

Could you tell me how you brought immigrants to this and found them to be the problem?

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#817

Post by watt »

elric wrote: post #713
armcat wrote: post #68

This is a great read and I can extend this argument really to any small business. Tax filing, VAT, bookkeeping, privacy, consumer, workplace and sectoral requirements frequently impose a disproportionately large cost on microbusinesses. EU is more and more split along the enterprise and VC backed line, and everyone in between has disproportionate costs. My barber in Stockholm often complains about this - the amount o…

Oh come on. Tax evasion by barbers is a classical example of why taxes are so high for the rest of us. The cost of bookkeeping for a very small business is essentially zero. Everywhere that I know of exempts small business from double entry bookkeeping. VAT exemptions exist if revenue is low enough, too. Privacy requirements are even easier: don't ask for, store, or process any personal information you don't absolute…

I am not sure what you are driving at. My understanding of double entry bookkeeping is it's simpler and easier than the so called "single entry" bookkeeping which adds a lot of complexity because of all the special cases.

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#818

Post by eastbound »

freehorse wrote: post #805
pembrook wrote: post #786

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m no fan of big tech, but, at some point the conspiratorial bending over backwards to blame big business instead of the government representatives creating the actual harm gets ridiculous. Again, I often sympathize with the left leaning side of things, but you have to admit our side has a massive blind spot in terms of blaming all the worlds ills on a secret cabal of business elites instead of blaming the mechanism…

When big companies have the resources to lobby and pass regulations (EU or country wide level) it is hard to separate these two, in particular when there are long-lasting policies that consistently disadvantage smaller entrepreneurs/small property owners disproportionally. I think it is fair to point criticism to government/eu, but it also fair to point who actually benefits (intentionally or even not) from these.

Up to the governments to require the split-up of companies which become too large. Up to the governments to avoid corruption.

"The bribe was too seducing" is not a valid defense for citizens. The fact the gouvernements have an armed branch to enforce hegemony makes it more required, not more forgivable.

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#819

Post by watt »

veeti wrote: post #416
alerighi wrote: post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My barber in Italy just doesn't make me a receipt in exchange for a discount if I pay him cash so he doesn't have to pay taxes. Come on... the cost to operating a small business are usually low/there are tax exceptions, and they most of the time are even not payed at all. Of course if you are a person that ships 20 packages you don't register a company to do so, nobody will, you just sell them privately (and the exce…

The barber in Stockholm probably wouldn't take cash if you tried ;) Single union, different rules.

In Berlin you can have same quality haircut for 15 euros, for 25 euros or 50 euros, your choice.

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#820

Post by zoobab »

uxhacker wrote: post #17

What is amazing is that this goes so much against the concept of the EU. The EU was founded on the principles of four freedoms, Free movement of goods, Free movement of persons, Freedom to provide services, and Free movement of capital. The EU even have a SME Test to maker sure small business are not overburdened by regulations. Also there are thousands of lobbyists fighting for small businesses. Yes, this law will p…

"Also there are thousands of lobbyists fighting for small businesses."

I don't know on which world you live, but it's the opposite.

Big business buys influence, including buying the opinion of small companies.

And big business is all around Brussels, small companies simply don't have a 'lobbyist'.

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