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How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

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Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#761

Post by rcxdude »

WarmWash wrote: post #211
the__alchemist wrote: post #10

This echos the FCC rules in the US, which I believe are gotten around by not complying. Even if you are not making an intentional radiator, and/or are using datasheet-specified layouts or modules, you still must comply, which makes these businesses non-viable if complying. I believe Adafruit gets around certifying every device by declaring themselves a cellphone company and being on good terms with regulators. This i…

As a hardware guy it totally kills me, to get a fun or needed small time product off the ground and legally onto the market can require ~$250k of lab certifications. Imagine making a mod for a video game, and to legally cover your ass, go through months of testing that cost $250,000. Talk about killing a project in the cradle. On the flip side, there are engineers who absolutely do not give a fuck, and will design th…

That's, uh, a wildly overestimated cost of certification. Most products you can self-certify, even off the back of your own testing.

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#762

Post by mordae »

mstaoru wrote: post #558
fallingbananna wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Could EU just ask DHL/Hermes/whatever to charge an additional €1 "for recycling"? Yes, but... Within EU we already pay ~€3 for packages from China. And in Austria we will soon pay additional ~€2 for every delivered package. And 20% VAT. Edit: I am pretty sure at least some part of these already contribute towards recycling. The goal here is likely not just to get more funding for recycling, but rather to use materia…

> Within EU we already pay ~€3 for packages from China Yes, the point is, pay +€1 for packages from EU to EU to finance all this PPWR circus.

It is already €20+ to send something from e.g. Czechia to France.

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#763

Post by logronoide »

m000 wrote: post #747

I've been following the PPWR in news and social media. Everybody is lamenting about the micro-enterprises that see their business squashed, but mostly because they are involved in one. I do empathize with them and really want to see these small business surviving and thriving. But then, in the context of discussion, nobody asks what matters: Cui bono? To me, this looks like a direct handout to Amazon and similar (big…

Obviously, you have never dealt with Amazon as a merchant.

You still need to be compliant with PPWR, no matter you sell on Amazon, eBay, Aliexpress or the street corner.

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#764

Post by imtringued »

warkdarrior wrote: post #469
xboxnolifes wrote: post #388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thats a stretch of the term "field". Are they also in the field of making money and the field of working within European law?

Yes, of course. They need to be aware of regulations in all aspects of their business (manufacturing electronics, shipping, consumer warranty, and taxation seem applicable).

You're somehow under the mistaken idea that the primary issue for businesses is that they don't want to be aware of regulations in all aspects of their businesses. The actual issue that you're sweeping under the rug is that these regulations create a minimum floor on the size of a business.

For example, a CRA self assessment including CE will require around $20k in liquid capital that you need out of pocket even if all you want to do is sell a single piece of jewelry with some electronics embedded into it. Not to mention the indirect costs such as guaranteeing 5 years of security updates.

There is also the issue that PLD for cloud services effectively means that you cannot easily update your software anymore while it is under investigation by a claimant because that could constitute destruction of evidence. This leads to a catch 22 with the CRA, where you are legally obligated to patch a security vulnerability within 72 hours.

The conflict here is that for physical products, the owner receives a unique reproduction of the design plans, whereas with cloud software, the customer is using shared infrastructure that can affect other customers if it is under investigation. So the entire cluster running the software turns into the equivalent of a smartphone. If you want to sell an updated product, you need to sell a new smartphone aka run a new cluster.

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#765

Post by germandiago »

ken666 wrote: post #555
germandiago wrote: post #528

My first decision when building my company was to leave Spain. They smash you very quickly. They do not care if they ruin you via prosecurion or you have to shut down. The tax agency is extremely agressive. The laws favor the agents to extents that are illegal and weven criminal (check the bonus of inspectors). Check Robert Amsterdam work on this, something we all spanish know for a long time.

Where did you move to, if I can ask?

Two countries in South East Asia (one is Singapore) to operate.

The business is meant to be b2b SaaS which is quite global. But if I lived in Spain... omg I do not want even to imagine how they would try to prosecute me. So I do not live there and problem solved.

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#766

Post by IsTom »

kccqzy wrote: post #662
Huppie wrote: post #630

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Under definitions (page 9) there's a big section > 6) Who is the ‘manufacturer’ of branded packaging? NEW! And it starts off this blurb: > According to the PPWR (Article 3(1), point (12)), if a packaging does not bear a name or trademark, the manufacturer will be the natural or legal person who manufactures packaging or packaged products. Seems pretty obvious to me the generic bubble envelope example from the blogpos…

How does that jibe with the following paragraph then? > If company A sells the cardboard boxes to Company C in another Member State, and Company C fills the boxes to transport packaged products, then Company C would typically be the producer in that Member State. This example makes no mention of whether Company C is a micro-enterprise. This is under transport packaging, not branded packaging.

Typically, the next point has the same typically with clarification that it's about micro-enterprises.

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#767

Post by teiferer »

badestrand wrote: post #700
teiferer wrote: post #361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed, and that's why we need more EU, not less of it.

You mean, it's good to have _even more_ bad regulations? Or rather, if a little bit of X is bad, why would you want more of X?

If you look at what I responded to then you see that it was about every country having their own rules. "More EU" would mean harmonizing them in the sense that they are all the same and you'd have a single regulatory body.

I don't see how less EU would make this particular problem any easier. It would certainly give you an even harder time to deal with 20+ states that all impose import bureaucracy. That's exactly what the EU was founded to solve, but the menber states are populisting against it, not unlike your comment.

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#768

Post by germandiago »

Grombobulous wrote: post #571
marc wrote: post #562

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> “Spain also smashes foreigners owning a property in Spain.” In which way?

Usually when people say stuff like this it translates to “the tax rate is slightly higher than [insert less desirable location here]” or "my marginal tax rate seems really high since I have a very high income"

> "my marginal tax rate seems really high since I have a very high income"

You can read my comment above. If it was only that... it is way more than that.

But hey, a high income is not a reason to overtax over 50% to anyone. That is crazy just based on the idea of "because they earn more" IMHO.

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#769

Post by germandiago »

gib444 wrote: post #727
x0x0 wrote: post #644

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spain charges you tax if you rent the property out. If you don't rent the property out, it imputes a rent and you are charged tax on the imputed rent. The cadastral value is (finger in the air) 40% of the value of the property; you pay (non-eu resident) 24% of between 1.1% and 2% of the cadastral value. So 0.1%-0.2% of property value annually.

> So 0.1%-0.2% of property value annually. You're highlighting how amazingly low that is right? In the UK (edit: England) unoccupied council tax charges can be in the region of £3000-8000/year (200% of the normal council tax bill)

In England there is a policy for "no empty house".

But tell me what happens in England if someone occupies a house. What I know is that they are kicked out and quickly.

In Spain? Just stop the electricity or water for them or look at all the laws that make them "vulnerable" and you are going to pay for them until they kick them out. Things got so bad that now people when they rent they make an insurance against this kind of intrusion. Before this was not a problem.

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