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How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

lectronz.com

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Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#741

Post by DiggyJohnson »

quijoteuniv wrote: post #258
mstaoru wrote: post #190

I don't know if this EU regulation will work or not (most likely not), but I can share how it is done in China (where package volume is orders of magnitude higher). China identifies "choke points" most packages pass: large platforms and logistics companies. Yes, Chinese e-commerce is more centralized on Alibaba/JD/PDD etc, but there are actually much more logistics companies in China than in EU. They also do not intr…

There will be errors if you try to regulate, but the idea is good, you profit packing in x, you pay. There is a chnce they het it right eventually, hopefully before all the small actors disappear. What is the alternative really. Other parts of the planet is just the big corporations that lobby and decide. People is just left with the pollution

Those places also are providing more opportunities for their populations than the EU. It’s way more nuanced than the dichotomy you laid out. The only reason this isn’t extremely obvious is Europe’s cultural and institutional inertia and society wealth. Without these head start I can almost guarantee you wouldn’t be making the same point about fiddling with regulatory minutia.

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#742

Post by DiggyJohnson »

Huppie wrote: post #631
veeti wrote: post #612

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Simply not true. The helpful diagram you refer to does not consider the case where company A manufactures the packaging, company B buys the packaging, and then does a B2C delivery to another member state. In that case company B is the producer, even if B is a "micro-enterprise". > the discussion here seems to have a lot of people who are in a big rush to demonize their perceived political opponents on ideological gro…

Under definitions (page 9) there's a big section > 6) Who is the ‘manufacturer’ of branded packaging? NEW! And it starts off this blurb: > According to the PPWR (Article 3(1), point (12)), if a packaging does not bear a name or trademark, the manufacturer will be the natural or legal person who manufactures packaging or packaged products. Seems pretty obvious to me the generic bubble envelope example from the blogpos…

Good god lol

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#743

Post by jurgenburgen »

andai wrote: post #495
bambax wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. I used to sell objects on Amazon in Europe. You can sell from just one country, but then each sale outside of that country is an "export" that triggers high fees. For sales to be "local", products need to be stored in warehouses in each country. But that in turn means the owner of said products (the seller) has to be registered for VAT in that country, and submitting annual reports in each country's language. I…

Kinda sounds like it would have been cheaper, more profitable, and less of a PITA for you (a European!) to sell in the US?

Tariffs on, tariffs off. Have you tried turning the White House off and on again?

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#744

Post by inglor_cz »

eptcyka wrote: post #576
rwyinuse wrote: post #507

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, if you want to fix electronics more often than not China is the only place you can buy spare parts. I don't think buying spare parts to devices counts as "stupid shit".

If you were to interpret the comment you’re responding to charitably, you’d understand that electronics components are a minuscule minority of all of Chinese exports.

The problem with overarching regulations is that they kill the good along the bad, which is the original topic of the article being discussed...

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#745

Post by dana-s »

anigbrowl wrote: post #600

Thanks to tomis who posted the EU FAQ on the topic below: https://op.europa.eu/en/publication-detail/-/publication/ad1... None of this applies to companies that are micro-enterprises or use generic rather than branded packaging. There's a helpful diagram on page 13. The author of this article seems to have imagined a worst-case scenario based on either a misunderstanding or misrepresentation of the EU rules; the disc…

Is a package branded if it has a sticker on it? Is it branded if it's got a print on the outside? If it has a tape that has the brand on it? Because all these cases have happened to smaller shops I buy from.

One has a tape on regular boxes that is branded

Other has stickers on the packages to identify it

And one has a small branded plastic packaging.

I doubt any of them is bringing home more than 500k EUR in revenues per year(giving a very safe margin there)

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#746

Post by rcxdude »

HWR_14 wrote: post #412
jabart wrote: post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

US Sales tax is the exact same way. Each state has a different rate, Texas has multiple rates inside a zip code you have to manage. Each state also has a nexus requirement that is either money, or number of transactions based. Then the filings you have to do and have a Foreign LLC registration, a registered agent in that state, and a yearly annual report to file to tell them you are still in business and here is my $…

Except you can sell through Amazon (or other online store) and they will manage all that for you as a single fee. Exactly the solution that the article proposed for the EU rules.

There are already places that will take an annual fee for dealing with this bureaucracy for you, as well.

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#747

Post by m000 »

I've been following the PPWR in news and social media. Everybody is lamenting about the micro-enterprises that see their business squashed, but mostly because they are involved in one. I do empathize with them and really want to see these small business surviving and thriving. But then, in the context of discussion, nobody asks what matters: Cui bono?

To me, this looks like a direct handout to Amazon and similar (big) enterprises: Pay a % "Amazon tax" to have your fulfilment handled by them, and your PPWR problem goes away.

And PPWR comes a short month after another Amazon-friendly legislation: The €3 per item-kind customs duty for items shipped from outside EU. Obviously, direct shipping from China had been undercutting Amazon-and-similar prices, were you willing to wait for a couple of weeks for your package to arrive. The new duty drastically changed the balance in the delivery time vs price calculation.

So, we have a streak of 2 legislations in a matter of a couple of months, benefiting a specific business model, and conveniently timed just before (€3 duty) and during (PPWR) the European Parliament recess. Coincidence much?

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#748

Post by dvdkon »

eptcyka wrote: post #576
rwyinuse wrote: post #507

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, if you want to fix electronics more often than not China is the only place you can buy spare parts. I don't think buying spare parts to devices counts as "stupid shit".

If you were to interpret the comment you’re responding to charitably, you’d understand that electronics components are a minuscule minority of all of Chinese exports.

I'm tired of being told I don't matter because I'm in a minority. You'd never dare imply a tax making gypsy folk singing unviable is fine because it's a "miniscule minority" of all music played, so why do it for electronics repair?

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#749

Post by inglor_cz »

petra wrote: post #392
bambax wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. I used to sell objects on Amazon in Europe. You can sell from just one country, but then each sale outside of that country is an "export" that triggers high fees. For sales to be "local", products need to be stored in warehouses in each country. But that in turn means the owner of said products (the seller) has to be registered for VAT in that country, and submitting annual reports in each country's language. I…

Let's say I'm a German small business owner. Tomorrow Europe becomes a single market. How do I compete with a similar business but from a country where business costs are significantly lower ?

If you are in Munich, how do you compete with someone from Magdeburg?

Also, quite a lot of German business costs are a self-inflicted wound (too much bureaucracy). Maybe taper down the endless paper war a bit, and throw away the fax machines.

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#750

Post by rcxdude »

carlosjobim wrote: post #204
Jskewel wrote: post #111

PPWR is an EU catastrophe. Firstly for the reasons outlined in the article: it essentially makes being a micro/small business in the EU impossible, if your market is other EU countries. Secondly because it validates insidious populist views that the EU institution is useless and incompetent at a fundamental level. The legislation is so ABSURDIST that the EU have actually asked companies to ignore the law that they ju…

Gosh I hate it when politicians are useless and incompetent, since it just validates the false populist propaganda that politicians can be useless and incompetent, which is clearly not true (even in cases when politicians actually are useless and incompetent, which they of course cannot be, since that is evil propaganda).

I hate it when politicians are useless and incompetent, since it just validates the false populist propaganda that the current politicians are only useless and incompetent (and of course the populists are totally competent).
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