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How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

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Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#801

Post by watt »

rickdeckard wrote: post #773

As I keep reading about "no prior warning", "effective immediately", "nothing being planned ahead", etc.: 1. This regulation was SIGNED in Dec.2024 [0], the average lead-time for the final document is 13-17 MONTHS, so work on this regulation started in 2023. 2. The law went into effect in Feb.2025 and is only being ENFORCED from Aug.2026 [0] 3. The owner of this regulation is the Directorate-General for Environment (…

When a law like this comes into effect it should have 3-5 year transition period. It does not matter how long they deliberated, there is time when law goes into effect, and then the countdown to enforcement should start, but it must not be less than 3 years, preferably 5.

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#802

Post by x0x0 »

thfuran wrote: post #667
x0x0 wrote: post #644

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spain charges you tax if you rent the property out. If you don't rent the property out, it imputes a rent and you are charged tax on the imputed rent. The cadastral value is (finger in the air) 40% of the value of the property; you pay (non-eu resident) 24% of between 1.1% and 2% of the cadastral value. So 0.1%-0.2% of property value annually.

0.2% is significantly lower than the property tax rate I pay on my house, and taxing vacant property seems like a good idea to try to disincentivize inefficient use of limited urban real estate.

You won't get any disagreement from me.

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#803

Post by x0x0 »

gib444 wrote: post #727
x0x0 wrote: post #644

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spain charges you tax if you rent the property out. If you don't rent the property out, it imputes a rent and you are charged tax on the imputed rent. The cadastral value is (finger in the air) 40% of the value of the property; you pay (non-eu resident) 24% of between 1.1% and 2% of the cadastral value. So 0.1%-0.2% of property value annually.

> So 0.1%-0.2% of property value annually. You're highlighting how amazingly low that is right? In the UK (edit: England) unoccupied council tax charges can be in the region of £3000-8000/year (200% of the normal council tax bill)

Yeah, a $800k property paying 0.2% or $1600/year is... seems low for the provision of roads, schools, firefighters, etc.

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#804

Post by realityking »

iamniels wrote: post #505

PPWR is not the only one. Don't forget WEEE and the battery regulation. Only for VAT we have a single entrypoint, for all other regulations, businesses have to submit for each country. Its simply impossible. On the other hand I estimate that between 50% and 200% of the taxes collected like this are wasted and not applied to their ultimate goals. The average collected amount per submission is so small that you cannot…

> On the other hand I estimate that between 50% and 200% of the taxes collected like this are wasted and not applied to their ultimate goals. The average collected amount per submission is so small that you cannot pay the bureaucrats managing the complex submissions from these sums.

The point of this tax is not to raise revenue bit to disincentivize wate. Since the tax weight based, companies have an incentive to reduce packaging.

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#805

Post by freehorse »

pembrook wrote: post #786
m000 wrote: post #747

I've been following the PPWR in news and social media. Everybody is lamenting about the micro-enterprises that see their business squashed, but mostly because they are involved in one. I do empathize with them and really want to see these small business surviving and thriving. But then, in the context of discussion, nobody asks what matters: Cui bono? To me, this looks like a direct handout to Amazon and similar (big…

I’m no fan of big tech, but, at some point the conspiratorial bending over backwards to blame big business instead of the government representatives creating the actual harm gets ridiculous. Again, I often sympathize with the left leaning side of things, but you have to admit our side has a massive blind spot in terms of blaming all the worlds ills on a secret cabal of business elites instead of blaming the mechanism…

When big companies have the resources to lobby and pass regulations (EU or country wide level) it is hard to separate these two, in particular when there are long-lasting policies that consistently disadvantage smaller entrepreneurs/small property owners disproportionally.

I think it is fair to point criticism to government/eu, but it also fair to point who actually benefits (intentionally or even not) from these.

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#806

Post by Ekaros »

x0x0 wrote: post #803
gib444 wrote: post #727

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So 0.1%-0.2% of property value annually. You're highlighting how amazingly low that is right? In the UK (edit: England) unoccupied council tax charges can be in the region of £3000-8000/year (200% of the normal council tax bill)

Yeah, a $800k property paying 0.2% or $1600/year is... seems low for the provision of roads, schools, firefighters, etc.

Property tax is not only taxation model. In some systems taxes are not really earmarked ton specific purposes instead they go to general budget and are then redistributed. So you can have lower property tax but otherwise higher other taxes and still pay for the stuff.

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#807

Post by rickdeckard »

stnikolauswagne wrote: post #781
rickdeckard wrote: post #773

As I keep reading about "no prior warning", "effective immediately", "nothing being planned ahead", etc.: 1. This regulation was SIGNED in Dec.2024 [0], the average lead-time for the final document is 13-17 MONTHS, so work on this regulation started in 2023. 2. The law went into effect in Feb.2025 and is only being ENFORCED from Aug.2026 [0] 3. The owner of this regulation is the Directorate-General for Environment (…

Im about as Pro EU as they come, but the problem is that lobying local governments does not help in this case. Im from Germany, we have no issues getting registration in Germany done, however when we looked into it there was quite frankly no way of getting for example the polish registration done. As citizen of Germany I cannot really lobby the local polish government, so we are basically barred from that market by E…

The polish government is not relevant in your case. It was a regulation written and signed by the Union of all countries. Your local German government is your elected representative in the European Union.

They should have influenced the form of this regulation because its final form affects the business of (German) citizens in the (Polish) market and threatens the EU single-market for SMB.

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#808

Post by freehorse »

HWR_14 wrote: post #395
gpjanik wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"people had 1 year to protest this" this is terminal stage subjugation to bureaucrats

How long should we have to wait to hear objections to a rule before we can implement it?

It sounds more like "the consequences of this regulation are your fault because you did not protest enough".

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#809

Post by simgt »

deno wrote: post #775
fy20 wrote: post #691

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> much more expensive to start and operate, both because of accounting and corporation income tax Assumption. It depends on the country. I know in the UK I opened my limited company for £20 and there is no requirement to have an accountant prepare accounts at my size (and it's simple enough to do yourself). Ok UK is no longer EU, but as I understand Ireland LTD, Latvia SIA, Estonia OU and Poland sp. z.o.o. are simila…

You need to do double entry bookkeeping and prepare annual financial statements for all of those you've mentioned including UK. In addition, you cannot register LTD in Ireland yourself, the Company's secretary must be a different person. So either you are now in business with a friend or you pay someone. For any other member country you also run into a language barrier. Polish "Sp. z o.o." has ~1150€ (5000 PLN) minim…

> It's much easier to just register US LLC instead at this point. However if you want to do anything physical not digital you end up having to register and do taxes in your resident country anyway.

How does remaining digital help here? My understanding was that you'd still be operating a foreign company so the country you reside in is able to claim taxes, regardless of what kind of business you do.

Re: How Europe is killing makers and micro-entrepreneurs

#810

Post by wartywhoa23 »

pembrook wrote: post #786
m000 wrote: post #747

I've been following the PPWR in news and social media. Everybody is lamenting about the micro-enterprises that see their business squashed, but mostly because they are involved in one. I do empathize with them and really want to see these small business surviving and thriving. But then, in the context of discussion, nobody asks what matters: Cui bono? To me, this looks like a direct handout to Amazon and similar (big…

I’m no fan of big tech, but, at some point the conspiratorial bending over backwards to blame big business instead of the government representatives creating the actual harm gets ridiculous. Again, I often sympathize with the left leaning side of things, but you have to admit our side has a massive blind spot in terms of blaming all the worlds ills on a secret cabal of business elites instead of blaming the mechanism…

> … the conspiratorial bending over backwards to blame big business instead of the government representatives …

False dichotomy.

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