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Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

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Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#801

Post by fourthwaveska »

grumblenum wrote: post #495
fourthwaveska wrote: post #44

By most western standards my family teeters on the line between middle and upper middle clas. We sold all of our US property last year; and now we are shopping for 4-6 unit buildings within 100km of Barcelona to get our Golden Visas. Our goal is to get citizenship and access to the EU then renouncing my US citizenship. It isnt about money, I am juwt ashamed to have an American passport and know my tax dollars are bei…

>It isnt about money, I am juwt ashamed to have an American passport and know my tax dollars are being spent on war and murder in the name of christ and oil profits. You know Bush isn't president anymore, right? That hasn't been a a popular (and I would say erroneous, even when it was popular) talking point for more than a decade. I do find it interesting that expatriation trends seem to pivot in years with president…

Yes Bush isn't president, but the failures and hatreds of the entire Bush family are still incredibly relevant today. If you don't believe that, look at the 10s of thousands of Afghans currently walking through Iran and Turkey to find refuge in Europe).

When you're the leader of the most powerful nation in the world, your decisions outlast your position.

Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#802

Post by fourthwaveska »

lordnacho wrote: post #347
fourthwaveska wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I love it there. My two closest friends moved there to study marine archaeology and within 3 years another 7 had moved there. We were married in Fanø. I’m old, I like the quiet. Ideally we would spend our winters somewhere warm and the rest of the time in Denmark.

It's certainly nice in the summer. Long but not too long sunlight, warm but not oppressive. I guess if you just spend summers there it wouldn't be hard to arrange.

Summers really are lovely there. Now that I'm finally vaccinated I'm hoping to go spend 3-4 weeks hopping back and forth between Fano/Esbjerg and Copenhagen. My treat to myself after over a year of Covid-induced unemployment now that I'm vaccinated and working again.

Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#803

Post by Retric »

trasz wrote: post #788
FredPret wrote: post #761

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one is thinking that. It was an example by the other commenter of a free and valuable service provided by the government as part of their side of the bargain

A service which is always provided for free - there are no countries that invoice victims. It’s the fact that the commenter assumed it might not be free that’s frightening.

It’s common for cops to require bribes to investigate crimes in developing countries. Not every time, but almost every interaction can end up as a shakedown.

Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#804

Post by fourthwaveska »

boulos wrote: post #405
PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair to the poster, they said that they sold their US propert(ies|y) which if they are older Americans probably releases an amount of capital that substantially covers the cost of the building they may acquire in Spain. But yeah, when the median US household income is about $68k, early $200k a year puts you far outside the middle class, even if it doesn't feel that way. [ yes, cost of living in NYC or SF has so…

Just a nit, but the San Francisco median household income is around $112k [1] for the same year as the $68k you mentioned [2]. I think 50% more counts as “much above the national figure”. [1] https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/sanfranciscocit... [2] https://www.census.gov/library/publications/2020/demo/p60-27...

Sure by these measures I'm rich, but I don't feel that way. Our current income isn't really indicative of the whole picture. Since I was diagnosed as Bi-Polar 20 years ago, I have averaged 2 months of unemployment per year, and just spent 13 months without income due to my inability to cope with the stress of the world.

Today I'm rich. Tomorrow I could be living in a van for 6 months like I did after the 2001 bubble burst.

Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#805

Post by fourthwaveska »

remir wrote: post #704
fourthwaveska wrote: post #44

By most western standards my family teeters on the line between middle and upper middle clas. We sold all of our US property last year; and now we are shopping for 4-6 unit buildings within 100km of Barcelona to get our Golden Visas. Our goal is to get citizenship and access to the EU then renouncing my US citizenship. It isnt about money, I am juwt ashamed to have an American passport and know my tax dollars are bei…

Please don't take this personnaly as I'm not targeting you specifically with my comment: but I don't know how I feel about wealthy foreigners coming to a place, buy property and extract rent from locals, who may not even be able to afford ownership in the first place.

> Please don't take this personnaly as I'm not targeting you specifically with my comment: but I don't know how I feel about wealthy foreigners coming to a place, buy property and extract rent from locals, who may not even be able to afford ownership in the first place.

Weird statement. Don't worry, I wouldn't take your uncertainty about your own feelings personally.

However, I do understand you, and this is something we've struggled with. My wife is a Turk, and at first when we realized "hey, if we sell my house in Mendocino, we can live like princes in Istanbul, or kings on the Aegean", and once that novelty wore off, we decided that we weren't those people.

The argument itself can apply to anywhere. In San Francisco, I spent 10 years living in illegal punk warehouses where I was not a gentrifier, but then I spent 10 years living in Oakland, where I was a gentrifier, even though I'm from California.

Where does the line get drawn? Is it OK to have the $$ to buy a nicer place anywhere in my own country? What about my home state?

We still struggle with this question a lot.

Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#806

Post by imtringued »

sunshineforever wrote: post #742
aerostable_slug wrote: post #727

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If non-PC thoughts are against the rules, post those rules in the acceptable use policy. I don't think it's hateful to critically discuss BLM. I do think it's hateful to say "x group is bad", but that's not what I read. I believe BLM to be led by Marxists and that is backed up by objective evidence. I'm not sure why that's controversial. It's also objectively true that George Floyd had a criminal record. Again, I'm n…

The Unites States needs a dose of Marxism. Things are bad here for the working class. We have more than enough resources to do better and bring our society up to par with other developed countries.

Marxism is crap. It doesn't address the flaws in monetary systems leading to collective short term thinking.

Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#807

Post by Retric »

Chris2048 wrote: post #769
Retric wrote: post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obligations don’t work that way, do you get paid for paying your debts? The personal benefit from the obligation to serve on juries is the option of being tried by a jury of your peers.

You compare obligations to debt (which do have an upfront playout) but then state there is a benefit. How does that work with debt? Why would a jury of peers be a benefit, unless you assume positive bias? How does that work with the draft?

If you’re paying an electric bill the benefit associated with the debt was receiving electricity. How does that work with debt? For debt like a credit card bill it’s the money you spent when buying stuff etc. If you meant taxes then it’s government services already received, for example a strong military.

Why would a jury of peers be a benefit, unless you assume positive bias? It’s an option, you don’t need to be tried by your peers so you would only pick it if it’s better than being judged by a judge. That doesn’t mean it’s a positive bias, you might assume judges have a negative bias.

How does that work with the draft? Look at all the countries that have been invaded, compare them to countries that haven’t been. That’s the benefit of a strong military and the existence of the draft is part of that.

Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#808

Post by fourthwaveska »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #396
fourthwaveska wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Patriotism? What exactly is that word to you? To me it is merey loyalty to mud.

Caring about your society, institutional values, and countrymen.

My life experiences have made me incapable of empathizing with this view. My fellow citizens have never had my back, and I disagree with most everything they hold dear, as they disagree with most everything about me.

I don't hate America or its people, I'm just not that into them.

Patriotic people love to tell others "If you don't love America, leave it". Well, as my patriotic act to those great patriotic Americans .. I left.

Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#809

Post by nicolas_t »

bnralt wrote: post #411
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Only because of US laws. I have two citizenships, but one residency. U.S. citizenship carries extraterritorial benefits. For example, we're pretty good at getting our people out of thorny situations, even at great national expense. If someone isn't paying to support that, it makes sense to force a revocation decision.

Many Americans seem to believe that, but it doesn't actually seem to be the case. For instance, when Yemen was falling apart, countries like China, India, Pakistan, Russia, and Indonesia all worked hard to evacuate their citizens, many using their military to do so[1]. The U.S. response was to tell American citizens they were on their own[2]. The U.S. embassy even recommended that Americans seek assistance from India…

Likewise in China, I had Italian friends whose embassy helped arrange covid vaccines for Italians living there while the US embassy was no help whatsoever to their citizens. At least among expats, the US embassy has the reputation to be the least helpful embassy to their citizens.

Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#810

Post by KptMarchewa »

nivenkos wrote: post #202
KptMarchewa wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're software engineer in Poland and spend some time architecting your contract, you can pay only 5% income tax (+ irrelevant amount for social security) as "R&D tax relief for commercializing IP rights". Point you're making applies to countries like Belgium or France.

You'll still get like 10% of a US salary though.

You can work remotely for UK fintechs. They secure round after round and offer share options.
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