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Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

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Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#371

Post by Retric »

Chris2048 wrote: post #224
Retric wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That honestly seems quite reasonable. Citizenship comes with all sorts of obligations like getting drafted and serving on juries, taxes are simply the most obvious. On the up side you can apparently still qualify for Social Security benefits.

> Citizenship comes with all sorts of obligations like getting drafted and serving on juries If you've already done those things, does the IRS pay you ?

Obligations don’t work that way, do you get paid for paying your debts?

The personal benefit from the obligation to serve on juries is the option of being tried by a jury of your peers.

Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#374

Post by PaulDavisThe1st »

ggggtez wrote: post #309
fourthwaveska wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Spanish golden visa will require a €550k housing investment, then the normal amount of accrued in-country time for citizenship. Maybe we’re sort of upper midde-class then. We gross about $200k consulting. Not rich, not poor. We live in the developing world now so here we are definitely upper middle class/rich, and do not have millions in assets.

You are upper class. Yes you're not rich, but you're not middle class. The middle class American dream is a house in the suburbs with a white picket fence, 2 cars, and a dog. You're talking about buying a half million dollar house in Spain because of a moral concern about global geopolitics. You're not middle class.

To be fair to the poster, they said that they sold their US propert(ies|y) which if they are older Americans probably releases an amount of capital that substantially covers the cost of the building they may acquire in Spain.

But yeah, when the median US household income is about $68k, early $200k a year puts you far outside the middle class, even if it doesn't feel that way. [ yes, cost of living in NYC or SF has some impact on this, but not much, given the median household income in those cities not actually being much above the national figure ]

Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#375

Post by petre »

rs999gti wrote: post #362
MangoCoffee wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>we're pretty good at getting our people out of thorny situations, even at great national expense. If someone isn't paying to support that, it makes sense to force a revocation decision. how many American get into that kind of shit storm? it seem like this benefit isn't worth the taxes that you pay

The US may or may not have paid $2M to get Warmbier our of North Korea https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/north-kore...

He died, so it didn't do much help.

Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#376

Post by PaulDavisThe1st »

ninja3925 wrote: post #4

It is good that we have such process for people to push back against their government greed. Usually, the citizenry is at the mercy of it and can’t do anything about it. You don’t like it? Fine. You have a choice and can get out. Good safety valve. It keeps the populist governments in check.

Except that the government has a process for "getting out", and that process is totally wedged right now. You don't just publish a notice in a newspaper or on FB ... you have to submit paperwork, pay fees, and have an exit interview. The government controls who gets out, and at what rate.

Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#377

Post by PaulDavisThe1st »

ninja3925 wrote: post #281
opheliate wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The worst of the great catastrophes and oppression of the last century were perpetrated by strong centralised governments. Absolutely. It's a good thing I'm not calling for massively beefing up government then, I'm just advocating that tax laws exist & are enforced, so as to redistribute wealth, which I don't view as oppressive. > If libertarianism would result in a great many oppressed people, any sort of centrali…

> I'm just advocating that tax laws exist & are enforced, so as to redistribute wealth, which I don't view as oppressive Laws are strongly enforced in this country (USA). Where is the bar for "oppressive"? I come from a country that thought that 70%+ taxation was acceptable. In the USA, we are now at 60%+ (across federal, state, local). It sure sounds oppressive to me and one way out is to give the choice to people t…

That 60% tax number is false.

What country ever taxes at 70% overall? The US used to have federal income upper marginal rates in the 90% range, but that doesn't mean that you pay 90% of your income as tax.

Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#378

Post by liquidmetal »

hnbalsamicw wrote: post #373

As a permanent resident living in the US I find myself wondering if it thusly makes sense to never take US Citizenship. It seems like I can easily abandon my residency the moment I want to retire and leave the US. Am I missing something ?

Permanent residents are also subject to the expatriation tax AFAIK.

Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#379

Post by PaulDavisThe1st »

sparrish wrote: post #363
i_d_rather_read wrote: post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Creating a company is not exploitative but rather collaborative and mutually beneficial (with workers). If it's collaborative can we vote a new CEO?

Yes, you go to work for a different company that has the CEO you want. Vote with your feet.

But wait, I thought building the company was collaborative? If I collaborated in building the company I work for, why would I want to leave it just to work for a different CEO? If all the workers agree that we need a different CEO, why can't we vote for it? After all, it's supposed to be a collaboration ....

Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#380

Post by SerLava »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #184
mgbmtl wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> surrendering US citizenship is a logical choice Only because of US laws. I have two citizenships, but one residency. In most Western countries, being a resident is associated with healthcare and pension, so having one residency is logical.

> Only because of US laws. I have two citizenships, but one residency. U.S. citizenship carries extraterritorial benefits. For example, we're pretty good at getting our people out of thorny situations, even at great national expense. If someone isn't paying to support that, it makes sense to force a revocation decision.

Just a warning: this isn't necessarily true. They'll only do it if there is a political benefit. Otherwise there is no duty to assist you.
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