Leaving a sinking ship is wise
Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship
401–410 of 876 posts
Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship
#402Earlier quoted context omitted.
> surrendering US citizenship is a logical choice Only because of US laws. I have two citizenships, but one residency. In most Western countries, being a resident is associated with healthcare and pension, so having one residency is logical.
> Only because of US laws. I have two citizenships, but one residency. U.S. citizenship carries extraterritorial benefits. For example, we're pretty good at getting our people out of thorny situations, even at great national expense. If someone isn't paying to support that, it makes sense to force a revocation decision.
> For example, we're pretty good at getting our people out of thorny situations
How thorny a situation has to be? Because I'm aware of a case when an American couldn't bring his own children to the states because his ex wife didn't consent to issue them American passports. Petitions, letters to the embassy and his congressman, nothing helped. A 3rd world country his ex wife's a citizen of had no issue with consents, it just issued passports allowing her to get the kids and leave the country they were residing in.
Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship
#403Interesting facts about renouncing American citizenship: - There is renunciation fee that has to be paid and currently stands at $2,350 (the highest in the world).[1] - A final tax return will sill need to be filed. [1] - An Expatriation tax is payable if [..] Your net worth is $2 million or more on the date of your expatriation. you will be treated as having disposed of your assets the day before your expatriation a…
It's even more expensive than that since they don't refund you the money you paid into Social Security when you renounce.
Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship
#404This also affects long term US residents (green card). See more at https://www.expatriationattorneys.com/green-card-u-s-exit-ta...
Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship
#405Earlier quoted context omitted.
You are upper class. Yes you're not rich, but you're not middle class. The middle class American dream is a house in the suburbs with a white picket fence, 2 cars, and a dog. You're talking about buying a half million dollar house in Spain because of a moral concern about global geopolitics. You're not middle class.
To be fair to the poster, they said that they sold their US propert(ies|y) which if they are older Americans probably releases an amount of capital that substantially covers the cost of the building they may acquire in Spain. But yeah, when the median US household income is about $68k, early $200k a year puts you far outside the middle class, even if it doesn't feel that way. [ yes, cost of living in NYC or SF has so…
Just a nit, but the San Francisco median household income is around $112k [1] for the same year as the $68k you mentioned [2]. I think 50% more counts as “much above the national figure”.
[1] https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/sanfranciscocit...
[2] https://www.census.gov/library/publications/2020/demo/p60-27...
Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship
#406Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Only because of US laws. I have two citizenships, but one residency. U.S. citizenship carries extraterritorial benefits. For example, we're pretty good at getting our people out of thorny situations, even at great national expense. If someone isn't paying to support that, it makes sense to force a revocation decision.
Just a warning: this isn't necessarily true. They'll only do it if there is a political benefit. Otherwise there is no duty to assist you.
> They'll only do it if there is a political benefit.
This is also how it works with other countries (e.g., Russia). They'll help if they get something out of it, or won't give a damn otherwise.
Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship
#407Earlier quoted context omitted.
Most people don't actually owe anything so the burden is mostly administrative, and what you're going through it for is not "where you were born" but continued citizenship and attendant benefits. As the article describes, you're free to give that up if you don't think it is worth it.
The article states > "There are probably 20,000 or 30,000 people who want to [renounce citizenship], but they can’t get the appointment," Lesperance said. "There’s not a peak demand — the system’s capacity has peaked." Also, it seems you need to pay a non trivial sum to do it, which is a real problem for US citizens abroad who are not rich. "Free to give that up" does not apply, unfortunately.
Not sure where you got the thing about the cost, which doesn't seem to be in the article, but it also flatly states that "The people who flee tend to be ultra-wealthy, and many of them are seeking to reduce their tax burden."
Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship
#408Earlier quoted context omitted.
10% is a gross exaggeration, though. Romania has lower salaries than Poland, as far as I know, and in Romania as a senior engineer in a decent company you can get a total > compensation of €3.5k - €4k per month, that would be ~$4k - $4.8k per month, so ~$48k - ~58k. Again, net. And probably more since there are companies that give you RSUs/ESPPs, so you can go along for the ride. Not as many as in the US, obviously,…
10% is a gross exaggeration but "the average ratio would be closer to 2-3x" sounds equally exaggerated in the other direction.
The median US gross salary for US software developers is $108k. I imagine that's $60k net or less.
The median Romanian net salary for software developers is RON 7000 per month. That's about €1400 or $1600 per month, so $19.2K, net. 3x.
You were saying?
Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship
#409Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Only because of US laws. I have two citizenships, but one residency. U.S. citizenship carries extraterritorial benefits. For example, we're pretty good at getting our people out of thorny situations, even at great national expense. If someone isn't paying to support that, it makes sense to force a revocation decision.
I needed to laugh really hard at this because it encapulates the US citizen's mind so perfectly. Partly because the US lives in my head rent free. Is it because every single US diplomatic relation is in one way or other tied to the military? If a jibali captures an operator then fair enough. The US is very preachy about their soldiers. But for a civilian to think about that as a benefit is just wild.
"cīvis rōmānus sum"
It's not like the US made this up. The Roman citizens had this protection too as they wandered the globe.
Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship
#410Earlier quoted context omitted.
Citizens are not assets of the state
It’s a reciprocal relationship with rights and obligations on both sides not ownership. For example the FBI doesn’t invoice victims or their families when it gets involved in kidnapping cases. Capital gains are deferred without interest until an asset it sold, that doesn’t mean there wasn’t an obligation for those years.
> FBI doesn’t invoice victims
what