NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings • Hacker News Board

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#801

Post by prawn » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 2:10 AM UTC

colordrops wrote: post #673

icedistilled wrote: post #661

Earlier quoted context omitted.

NPR yesterday was interviewing a guy who'd had an organ transplant and thus has to take immunosuppressant drugs. He'd been vaccinated, it was either pfizer or moderna. His doctor tested him for antibodies, his were undetectable. He was getting a third shot in hopes it would finally give him antibodies. By being against vaccines or against vaccine requirements, people risk the lives of those like that guy, who's alrea…

Using this reasoning shouldn't the flu vaccine also be required? Many immunosuppressed individuals cannot survive the flu. BTW, I'm not implying a stance here as pro- or anti- vaccine requirements - just probing this particular talking point.

I've seen it suggested that annual flu shots be required in some contexts. My main reason for not getting flu shots is laziness; my wife gets one annually.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#802

Post by foolinaround » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 2:11 AM UTC

bingohbangoh wrote: post #576

Barrin92 wrote: post #553

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if you are fully vaccinated, you are at essentially no risk of serious illness from SARS-CoV2. Terrible first order logic. The threat from the virus is not only immediate risk to the individual, it is also further transmissions increasing the risk of creating new breakthrough variants. Every infected person is a gamble that risks nullifying the effectiveness of vaccines, so the goal must be to bring down infections…

Won’t there always be a variant popping up somewhere in some part of the world though? The idea that “if we all got vaccinated, we could have zero variants” reeks of “zero COVID” thinking

This point needs to be stated more loudly.

People here pretend that if only USA was 100% vaccinated, then there will not be another variant.

There will always be another part of the world where a variant will arise, and eventually make its way here to the US.

OTOH, the USA is unique in the freedom it offers compared to any other country in the world, and a key ingredient in my opinion to its success.

One of the most shocking aspects to me is how the US citizens have changed to so nonchalantly willing to give away their freedoms and those of their neighbours.

I would not have believed if someone told me this 2 years ago.

And in the past years, I had often wondered about the 'good' Germans during the time of the Nazis, and why they did'nt first lift a finger when the atrocities against the Jews started, and later, a good number of them actively participated in elimination of the Jews.

the last year has been quite an eye opener. My hope is that more US citizens, regardless of their political persuasions and belief about the vaccines step back and think about the uniqueness of the freedoms they enjoy, and their willingness to throw it all away.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#803

Post by quotemstr » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 2:12 AM UTC

mrfusion wrote: post #230

A bit off topic but you know what’s really jarring for me? For the past ten years I’ve agreed with the majority on hacker news on almost every issue. Software patents, voting rights, who knows what else. Everyone seemed to just find the right answer and it made sense. Then all of a sudden I’m in tiny minority because I believe people should be able to choose what they put in their own bodies. It really feels like a t…

Welcome to the club. I've been consistently anti-censorship and pro-freedom-of-speech for as long as I can remember, and I lost touch with the majority here years ago. The sudden lurch toward authoritarian in the tech world was something that I didn't expect and that I still lament.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#804

Post by systemvoltage » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 2:17 AM UTC

titzer wrote: post #718

mrfusion wrote: post #230

A bit off topic but you know what’s really jarring for me? For the past ten years I’ve agreed with the majority on hacker news on almost every issue. Software patents, voting rights, who knows what else. Everyone seemed to just find the right answer and it made sense. Then all of a sudden I’m in tiny minority because I believe people should be able to choose what they put in their own bodies. It really feels like a t…

> Then all of a sudden I’m in tiny minority because I believe people should be able to choose what they put in their own bodies. It's just being selective, because you had to be vaccinated to go to school and/or college. And ain't nobody alive today that can choose to not ingest microplastics, PFAs, pesticides, many can't avoid lead in their drinking water, and none of us can avoid air pollution. And COVID for that m…

I agree with you (pro-vaccines) but the same can be said about "Your emergency approved vaccine fist is right in my face" is what the other side is probably thinking as well. Pesticides, removing lead from water, etc. do not happen on the client-side by taking an experimental pill that produces proteins to fight microplastics, heavy elements, etc.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#805

Post by xjlin0 » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 2:18 AM UTC

trhway wrote: post #469

rubicon33 wrote: post #405

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We should be reacting rationally to rates of hospitalization and deaths -- and right now, those are barely changed in NYC, No. No. No. No. No. Why is this so hard for people to understand? A virus doesn't just enter your body, and quietly go away. In MANY cases, it can have a lasting effect on your underlying health and wellness. This isn't a point of question, it's a known FACT that is all too often left out of th…

>I am vaccinated. I have friends who are vaccinated, and have still gotten COVID. vaccinated people get covid and spread it like unvaccinated[1]. Then what is the point of vaccination mandate? I really don't understand. Add to that that since May CDC stopped counting breakthrough cases which don't result in hospitalizations. [1] https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/30/cdc-study-shows-74percent-of... "About three-fourths of p…

>vaccinated people get covid and spread it like unvaccinated[1]. Then what is the point of vaccination mandate? I really don't understand.

The point is to greatly reduce your chance going into ICU. Trust me, nobody like the intubation. Physicians don't like it, patients hate it.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#806

Post by arwhatever » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 2:19 AM UTC

makomk wrote: post #409

compsciphd wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Israel antibody levels are a way to get the "green passport". My parents get vaccinated in the US, and since israel doesn't recognize foreign vaccinations, when they visited Israel they had to get an antibody test to be let out quarantine early. As it should them having antibodies, they were let out. As Israel doesn't have data that says they were vaccinated, they were let out as "recovered" (even though as far as…

The US seems to have a weird ideological opposition to the idea that recovered people have immunity from Covid, even though all the science indicates that they do. There's even weird articles in the press from time to time boggling at the fact that people don't care about getting vaccinated despite having caught Covid before, as though that somehow gave them more reason to think they needed a vaccine rather than less…

Maybe we just like controlling each other's behavior? Maybe we can't handle more than one input dimension at a time, and even then that dimension needs to be binary?

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#807

Post by fumar » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 2:21 AM UTC

timr wrote: post #659

Barrin92 wrote: post #553

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if you are fully vaccinated, you are at essentially no risk of serious illness from SARS-CoV2. Terrible first order logic. The threat from the virus is not only immediate risk to the individual, it is also further transmissions increasing the risk of creating new breakthrough variants. Every infected person is a gamble that risks nullifying the effectiveness of vaccines, so the goal must be to bring down infections…

> we should have. Tolerating disease spread and threats to vulnerable populations when vaccines are available that are practically risk-free (or the risk being magnitudes smaller than the payoff) is ridiculous. Maybe this finally shakes people awake and puts public health and safety to the top of the agenda rather than people throwing tantrums like children about government incursion. You can certainly go down this p…

Sure, self preservation or self preference first. I get that. What about empathy to frail or at risk people? What about people on cancer treatments that diminish their immune systems? Those people even vaccinated may be at higher risk.

Are you saying that the greater good in overall societal health is less valuable than your individual preferred method of existence? Genuinely curious.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#808

Post by IG_Semmelweiss » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 2:21 AM UTC

lc9er wrote: post #513

Alupis wrote: post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your children don't need to go to a public school, or daycare. You can home school if you're so opposed to these things. What alternative do I have for going to the beach - and outdoor space? What alternative does the private gym owner/operator have? These steps are not the same as your examples.

> Your children don't need to go to a public school You’ve got this part backwards, if I’m reading this correctly. You must adhere to public health mandates to send a child to public school. If you choose not to abide, then you can opt to send your kid to a private school.

In most states, Private schools are subject to the same rules as public schools.

Source: deparment of health

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#809

Post by onecommentman » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 2:22 AM UTC

alecst wrote: post #9

Pretty dismal discussion in here at the time of writing. Largely complaints about tyranny. Makes me sad that we can't have a calm discussion about the merits of the policy. From what I can tell, you might be opposed to this policy if: 1. You have fears about getting a vaccine, moreso than for coronavirus. If this is you, do you prefer a mask mandate? And if so, how do you enforce this in a restaurant, where anyone ea…

Compared to the Reddit discussions in the COVID subreddit, these comments are publishable in Lancet.

I look forward to the full CDC approval that will validate your presumption about any given vaccine’s efficacy and safety. Right now, the manufacturers have no “skin in the game”…no legal liability. I assume that liability will return with full CDC approval, instead of emergency approval that they have now. (My personal peripheral understanding)

You see, there is a fourth choice, wait on vaccination until those making a vaccine are willing to accept the normal legal responsibility for the products injected into your body. Depending on your personal risk and risk exposure profile and your level of skepticism in an emergency drug, it may be the prudent personal choice. There are even other choices as well. There is more in Heaven and Earth than dreamt in your decision tree.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#810

Post by boplicity » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 2:27 AM UTC

aimkey wrote: post #716

icedistilled wrote: post #661

Earlier quoted context omitted.

NPR yesterday was interviewing a guy who'd had an organ transplant and thus has to take immunosuppressant drugs. He'd been vaccinated, it was either pfizer or moderna. His doctor tested him for antibodies, his were undetectable. He was getting a third shot in hopes it would finally give him antibodies. By being against vaccines or against vaccine requirements, people risk the lives of those like that guy, who's alrea…

I have an autoimmune disorder (caused by a drug trial of an immunotherapy I was on due to cancer). I haven’t taken the vaccine because my cohort has been excluded from every trial and study. There is no (serious) guidance on how I’m supposed to schedule my regular biologic shot in concert with a vaccine dose. The CDC actually has a section on their website saying how people with auto immune issues were excluded from…

As someone also on biologics, all I can say is the evidence is overwhelming: There is almost no risk in getting one of the MRNA covid vaccines if you are on a biologic. The efficacy is in doubt, but that is another issue. In short: there appears to be no downside to getting vaccinated, while there is serious possible upside. I don't understand your hesitancy here.