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Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

economist.com

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Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#801

Post by throwaway316943 »

smegger001 wrote: post #230
archsurface wrote: post #2

I have no tolerance for politics at work. As far as woke at work goes, not too long ago someone in my office commented on slack "I don't approve of unnecessarily gendered emoji" - I can't even begin to imagine what sort of mind produces such thoughts. First world problems? No idea.

the one that gets me is adding race to emoji. they all used to be 'Simpsons yellow', a skin tone not found in any ethnic or racial group, and as such not representing or excluding any group but now we have black white and other various skin tones for our happy-faces. WHY? Does black happy face mean something different than white happy face isn't happiness universal? why bring race into something that was simply meant…

The original smiley face was yellow because it was drawn on yellow paper, chosen because the task was to make a logo to cheer people up and yellow was “sunshiny and bright”. The colour has nothing to do with skin tone.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#802

Post by [deleted] »

furyofantares wrote: post #448
smegger001 wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the one that gets me is adding race to emoji. they all used to be 'Simpsons yellow', a skin tone not found in any ethnic or racial group, and as such not representing or excluding any group but now we have black white and other various skin tones for our happy-faces. WHY? Does black happy face mean something different than white happy face isn't happiness universal? why bring race into something that was simply meant…

I perceive the cartoon yellow emojis to be white, an alternative interpretation never occurred to me at all. The first time a black coworker gave a black thumbs-up reaction on slack, I noticed I didn't want to +1 it. I didn't identify with it, it didn't feel like it was coming from me. This was a strong reaction and totally unexpected, and it was a "holy shit" moment as well, because I suddenly imagined how excluded…

[deleted]

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#803

Post by throwaway346434 »

globular-toast wrote: post #757
fighterpilot wrote: post #405

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"not being able to escape anxiety-inducing situations" This sounds like an emotionally abusive environment unless you happen to agree with the political agenda being pushed. To feel socially pressured to go along or else be ostracized from your work is fairly awful. I'm fortunate that I've worked in a rather politically balanced industry which naturally turns out to be apolitical as a consequence of mere demographics…

That's exactly what it's like. I've not seen it put like this before, but anxiety inducing is just right, and yes, it is abusive. Take the letter people, for example. They will ridicule people for not understanding the difference between G and Q, for example. Phrases like "if you don't know what X means, you must live under a rock" are common. Then you have the pronoun people who tell us anyone can choose any set of…

Seriously? You know so many trans, agender, etc folks that have adopted different pronouns than what they had at birth that YOU are overwhelmed and are now the victim in some way? And the people who have made choices about identity are inventing a secret language like children? Reflect a little bit on your outlook before you join a discussion, for goodness sake.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#804

Post by wpietri »

collaborative wrote: post #718
gryfft wrote: post #682

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People who huffily decry "politics" also tend to have political beliefs which they feel are apolitical. Examining and unpacking those beliefs is "political," however, so that the net result is "I just don't want my politics questioned or examined, even when it affects other people."

Believe it or not there are plenty of people who live their lifes outside of politics. They don't vote, they don't have any favorites in the political arena Politics is divisive and agressive. Some people are put off by the easy narratives of good vs bad Only dictatorships have historically wanted to permeate every aspect of life with politics. The USSR used to say "everything is politics". There are plenty of exampl…

> Believe it or not there are plenty of people who live their lifes outside of politics.

Nobody lives their life outside of politics. At best, they ignore partisan politics. But they can only do that because the political status quo is one that favors them and the people they care about.

I agree that an "office brawl about politics" is bad. But that's because brawls are bad, not because you can somehow have an office untouched by politics.

Take the very simplest example: how many hours do you work a week?

That number is determined by a political process. It always has been. When it was set purely by the rich people who owned businesses, 80 to 100 hours work weeks were common. Workers pushed back over decades; eventually we ended up with things like a 40-hour work week and overtime pay. Due to politics, that number has been rising in the US, with legal protections for workers decaying. Meanwhile, some people with more political and economic power have been pushing for shorter weeks. There's a long history to this, and it's all political: https://www.cnbc.com/2017/05/03/how-the-8-hour-workday-chang...

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#805

Post by nullifidian »

asdfasgasdgasdg wrote: post #411
ThinkBeat wrote: post #371

One part of the article: This is about a guy who wrote a book on his own time, published it outside of work. Someone did not like some parts of the book and the guy had to quit his job? There is nothing to suggest the man acted improperly at work. I write fictional stories in my spare time (never at work), I enjoy doing it. Some people enjoy reading them (I can't figure out why) It is a sad day for a Democracy when I…

> There is nothing to suggest the man acted improperly at work. We've had this discussion already, but claiming sexist views is going to be a problem for you whether you do it at work or elsewhere because of how laws around hostile work environments and notice work. Particularly, if you go on to actually create a hostile work environment (as one might reasonably suppose you will, having publicly espoused the relevant…

>but claiming sexist views is going to be a problem for you whether you do it at work or elsewhere because of how laws around hostile work environments and notice work.

Then that would be an equivalent to congress creating "anti-sexist"(in reality a particular interpretation of what sexist is) speech-regulating laws, since it automatically bars anyone who expressed something incompatible with the court-mandated speech standard from employment. It also in-effect regulates religious speech, since many religions are sexist according to the critical feminist jurisprudence.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#806

Post by DHPersonal »

prepend wrote: post #123
darkhorse22 wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's surely a firable offense, but part of me is so tempted to give a dark-skin-tone thumbs up in Slack as a white guy.

I’ve wondered about this but I’ve never seen anyone use an emoji thumbs up in anything but yellow. I can’t imagine ever setting it to match my skin color, but it would be neat to learn about people who want emojis that look more like them. If anything, I’d be more likely to choose a color far away from my skin.

I do it because it’s a way to personalize my message and share a bit of who I am through my text. The emojis are there to emulate my face and hands during speech, so making them look like me too is helpful to conveying a little more of what a face-to-face conversation would offer.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#807

Post by SyzygistSix »

throway98752343 wrote: post #569
nradov wrote: post #454

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your opinion is not valid. Guns aren't necessarily political. Should I refrain from asking work colleagues who they think is likely to medal in the 2021 Olympics women's skeet shooting event?

Imagine your coworker talks all the time about how they love guns, how many guns they have, and how good they are at shooting. Then they talk about how they have a concealed carry permit and how it's even legal in your area for them to carry guns at work. And one time after a few happy hour beers they said that their ancestors used to shoot people like you. But not you obviously, you're a great coworker, they like yo…

It depends on the tone. If their point is why the right to be armed is important for minorities and that unequal rights in this regard helped allow historic injustice, I don't think it would be creepy. It would be somewhat political though.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#808

Post by wpietri »

slibhb wrote: post #759
wpietri wrote: post #374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The canonical point of a workplace is to come together to fulfill the aims of the entrepreneurs. I disagree. The notion that humans turn into employer-owned production machinery for 8 hours a day is one very particular way to conceptualize work. But it ignores both the individual as a whole person and the society that contains and enables the workplace to function. To me, even as a former and perhaps future entrepr…

> If people want to play-act as robots, I won't deny them their kink. But that's not what interests me about work, and it's not the kind of person I hire. If you want to see how far some people have lost the plot, consider that this poster is boasting about only hiring people who agree with his politics. You can be damn sure he wouldn't hire a passionate Trump supporter.

That is not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that I won't hire people who are excessively deferential to authority in a way that they suppress their individuality and their concerns about the society in which we work.

Why? Because I think the work we do requires attention, care, and concern about the impacts of the work. I build software for actual people to use, and that requires caring about the actual people who use it. I build software in a collaborative, team-oriented context, and that requires caring about the actual people who are one's colleagues.

Of course, there are people I won't hire for their politics. For example, racists and misogynists will not get hired. That's because we're making software for all sorts of people, and being hostile to those people is a dealbreaker. It's because I aim to hire all sorts of people, and being hostile or unwelcoming to colleagues will get them fired in a hearbeat.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#809

Post by refenestrator »

gnopgnip wrote: post #720
mk81 wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I don't think the answer is a return to 20th century "no politics at work" Why not?

Because "no politics at work" isn't neutral, it means supporting the status quo by way of defining what counts as "politics". Is calling someone by their preferred pronouns, or wearing a mask during the pandemic politics?

I feel like there's a vast, decent middle ground between deliberately misgendering your coworkers and the current inquisition-style shitfest.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#810

Post by wpietri »

StanislavPetrov wrote: post #502
wpietri wrote: post #374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The canonical point of a workplace is to come together to fulfill the aims of the entrepreneurs. I disagree. The notion that humans turn into employer-owned production machinery for 8 hours a day is one very particular way to conceptualize work. But it ignores both the individual as a whole person and the society that contains and enables the workplace to function. To me, even as a former and perhaps future entrepr…

>I think it's a giant mistake to see a workplace as a place where the entrepreneur is a tiny god-king. It isn't about being a god king, its about people being capable of collectively doing a task without saddling the execution of that task with all of their personal, political and emotional baggage. >If people want to play-act as robots, I won't deny them their kink. But that's not what interests me about work, and i…

Gosh, you want to collect a fat paycheck and have freedom to do what you want in your off hours? That sounds very political. What are you doing bringing up politics in relation to work?

And you might think I'm kidding. But those views would have made you a complete radical in 1867. By 1967 it wouldn't have been radical for a white man, but it was still radical for anybody non-white or non-male. By 2017, it was somewhat better for women and racial minorities, but in many places it was still radical to suggest that gay people should enjoy those rights.

So "no politics at work" ends up being code for IMGFY. It's not a lack of politics. It is politics, just defending the status quo.

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