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Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

economist.com

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Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#401

Post by betwixthewires »

kaitai wrote: post #391
betwixthewires wrote: post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think its less of a "giving up your ethics and morals because you crossed the threshold" thing and more a "leave your coworkers the fuck alone" thing. Do you think it is a coincidence that this nonpolitical workplace thing is catching on right now, and not, say, 30 years ago? Nobody was calling for a nonpolitical workplace when the issues at hand were sexual harassment and equal pay for equal work. If there were so…

That's a really wishful-thinking reading of history. Back when women were coming into the workplace, no, a non-political workplace was not the thing called for -- a male workplace was what was called for. If you need a movie, watch North Country (based on the nonfiction book Class Action). Then, as now, is that people show up to work in the bodies they have and they get shit for it. People get agitated because there…

It is my problem. That's arrogant of you to assume that I don't care about people and injustice.

But the fact is, we are talking about absurdity in the workplace right now. We aren't talking about equal pay for black people or women. We aren't talking about equal consideration of homosexual people for jobs. When we talk of it hypothetically that's how it is framed so as to paint everyone tired of it as an evil bigot, but when it occurs in the workplace, it's a CEO getting fired for wearing anime shirts to work, it's a petition to require Google to issue a formal statement on the Israel Palestine conflict. The people that don't want politics in every waking moment of their lives, it's not that they just don't want to see their boss get fired for throwing a black guy's resume in the trash. It's that they're sick of every person's pet crusade being blasted into their lives and having to nod in eager agreement lest they be destroyed for not being one of the Good Guys™.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#402

Post by [deleted] »

CincinnatiMan wrote: post #322
mplanchard wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would be nice for sure. I think that some people don’t get that privilege still by virtue of who they are. As a recent example that came up in my social circle, say you’re a woman in tech. It turns out that literally every single woman I know in tech has had to deal with at best unwanted propositions but more frequently outright harassment by their male coworkers. In situations like that, you can’t get away from…

The connection to politics in your scenario isn’t clear to me. Are people having charged discussions on Slack about whether men should be allowed to harass women? I would think the scenario would be an open and shut case of going to associate relations to complain about the harassment. No real political discussion to be had.

[deleted]

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#403

Post by yyeess »

devoutsalsa wrote: post #29
tshaddox wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The point of a workplace is to come together to fulfill the aims of the entrepreneurs. The personal aims of the workers are fulfilled best outside of work. What? I can’t be the only one who works directly in order to fulfill my needs (like literally my most basic needs, think food and shelter).

I think the parent comment is saying work is all ultimately all about making money. That’s in sync with what you’re saying. I think.

[dead]

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#404

Post by thrownaway564 »

meowtimemania wrote: post #91
nxmnxm99 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah. I grew up in a third world country and moved to North America pretty late. I never realized how sheltered and weak Americans were till I joined a well known YC company.

Can you expound? In what ways do you find them weak? I can think of many but curious on your perspective

Antonio García Martínez:

"Most women in the Bay Area are soft and weak, cosseted and naive despite their claims of worldliness, and generally full of shit. They have their self-regarding entitlement feminism, and ceaselessly vaunt their independence, but the reality is, come the epidemic plague or foreign invasion, they’d become precisely the sort of useless baggage you’d trade for a box of shotgun shells or a jerry can of diesel."

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#405

Post by fighterpilot »

madrox wrote: post #144

I'm not sure where we go from here, but not being able to escape anxiety-inducing situations in a workplace is the definition of a toxic work environment. I don't think the answer is a return to 20th century "no politics at work," but at the FAANG I worked at, politics was impossible to avoid. Even the desire to be apolitical is itself criticized at worst and not respected at best. Work doesn't afford the use of the…

  "not being able to escape anxiety-inducing situations"
This sounds like an emotionally abusive environment unless you happen to agree with the political agenda being pushed. To feel socially pressured to go along or else be ostracized from your work is fairly awful.

I'm fortunate that I've worked in a rather politically balanced industry which naturally turns out to be apolitical as a consequence of mere demographics.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#406

Post by aluminum96 »

A major part of "politics at work" is actually politics about the workplace -- see also, the recent Basecamp kerfuffle, which turned out to be about actions taken by employees in the office. Trying to ban politics is well and good, but what happens when the politics are about things that happened in your office?

Politics are inevitable. Companies ought to try to manage discussion realistically, rather than covering their eyes and ignoring the problem.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#407

Post by mempko »

ThinkBeat wrote: post #371

One part of the article: This is about a guy who wrote a book on his own time, published it outside of work. Someone did not like some parts of the book and the guy had to quit his job? There is nothing to suggest the man acted improperly at work. I write fictional stories in my spare time (never at work), I enjoy doing it. Some people enjoy reading them (I can't figure out why) It is a sad day for a Democracy when I…

You should look into the Democracy at Work movement. https://www.democracyatwork.info/

EDIT: Just downvoting. No opinions about the above?

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#408

Post by smegger001 »

mattnewton wrote: post #345
smegger001 wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the one that gets me is adding race to emoji. they all used to be 'Simpsons yellow', a skin tone not found in any ethnic or racial group, and as such not representing or excluding any group but now we have black white and other various skin tones for our happy-faces. WHY? Does black happy face mean something different than white happy face isn't happiness universal? why bring race into something that was simply meant…

I don’t think everyone interpreted “Simpsons yellow” as race-less. Certainly the show didn’t - On the show, Homer identifies as a white male IIRC, and some characters (like Apu) are not yellow. You have to pick some skin tone for the default; just floating features would be off putting. Believing that the pan-white default of “simpsons yellow” is raceless because you feel represented in it excludes that others might…

Somewhere farther down another commenter asked if I would consider it race neutral if it was dark magenta.

My response was yeah sure.

If it is not a real skin tone it is neutral and i would feel just as attached to it and feel it is raceless equally as bright yellow. I don't feel anymore or less represented either.

*edited for spelling

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#409

Post by JamisonM »

smegger001 wrote: post #363
justbored123 wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Step back, take a deep breath and read what you wrote. You are saying that we should not care, but you clearly care if the face is black ... So, somebody decided that he would like to have a black emoji because he like it that and you decided to make an issue out of it ... and accuse the other person of what you yourself are doing ... If you don't see it is because you don't want to see it. "Why do you see the speck…

I am not upset that there is black, i am bothered that something that was implicitly neutral is not neutral anymore. that it can now be used as yet another point in which to divide than unify.

If you've watched the Simpsons, the "Simpsons Yellow" is white, it is clearly demonstrated in the show - Apu isn't yellow! It undermines your whole point!

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#410

Post by AnimalMuppet »

rantwasp wrote: post #369
archsurface wrote: post #2

I have no tolerance for politics at work. As far as woke at work goes, not too long ago someone in my office commented on slack "I don't approve of unnecessarily gendered emoji" - I can't even begin to imagine what sort of mind produces such thoughts. First world problems? No idea.

you do have tolerance. you just don’t know it. a lot of things are “political”. You cannot share virtually anything about you or your life without some political subtext. Try sharing something, anything and I’ll make it political in 2 easy steps. Unless you’re a machine, there is politics at work. does everything have to be a woke political discussion? prolly not

A lot of things are "political", but not that many are political.

> Try sharing something, anything and I’ll make it political in 2 easy steps.

Yeah, see, that's the problem. The problem isn't that everything is in some way political. It's people who are looking to make things political. (In fact, that could be a functional definition of woke-ness.)

You don't want that at work. Eventually, the woke people will find a way to turn on some of your most valuable and most talented employees. That's not going to end well, no matter who wins the fight.

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