Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing • Hacker News Board

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#301

Post by planet-and-halo » Sat, May 22, 2021, 2:05 AM UTC

kwdc wrote: post #219

Most political discussions fall apart due to people's inability to tolerate dissenting views. The inability to tolerate disagreement in a civil manner is likely just one cause. The amygdala hijack kicks in and suddenly people are frothing at the mouth shouting and are then soon reaching for their metaphorical pitchforks. Online its all about silencing that dissention. Shut up! You can't disagree! Steps are soon taken…

This is pretty much why I've checked out. I used to love discussions with people who made me see something in a different way, but these rage-driven shouting matches are illiberal (in the classical sense) and toxic. It's politics for addicts.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#302

Post by jmull » Sat, May 22, 2021, 2:05 AM UTC

arpowers wrote: post #263

rogers18445 wrote: post #124

Politics is what it is precisely because it is vacuous - you signal allegiance and that is all. You as an individual cannot influence anything any more than discussing an incoming storm would influence its trajectory. But unlike the storm we know that the results of what society produces are determined by the society. And people don't realize or care that they as an individual are not society and have no influence ov…

Game theory, finally someone gets it.

I don't get it. What's the insight here?

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#303

Post by sergiomattei » Sat, May 22, 2021, 2:05 AM UTC

eloff wrote: post #255

nxmnxm99 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah. I grew up in a third world country and moved to North America pretty late. I never realized how sheltered and weak Americans were till I joined a well known YC company.

I feel like this is true, especially of younger generations, in many rich countries. I think maybe because it takes challenge and pain to grow and things have been quite comfortable for a long time for many. It could just be my perception. But I've never seen so much anxiety, such reluctance to do hard things, and such inability to focus. Social media may be largely to blame.

It's not any of those things. It's the fact that your generation likely faced a much different set of problems than the current one does.

Every generation fails to understand the upcoming one. Common thought throughout the ages.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#304

Post by madrox » Sat, May 22, 2021, 2:08 AM UTC

mk81 wrote: post #256

madrox wrote: post #144

I'm not sure where we go from here, but not being able to escape anxiety-inducing situations in a workplace is the definition of a toxic work environment. I don't think the answer is a return to 20th century "no politics at work," but at the FAANG I worked at, politics was impossible to avoid. Even the desire to be apolitical is itself criticized at worst and not respected at best. Work doesn't afford the use of the…

>I don't think the answer is a return to 20th century "no politics at work" Why not?

Because the genie is out the bottle. For better or worse, many tech companies have worked hard to make your workplace your social hub in an effort to retain employees and get them to work longer hours. That's already happened, so now we have to deal with the good and bad that came from that. Going backward to how things were is as realistic as uninventing Twitter.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#305

Post by delaynomore » Sat, May 22, 2021, 2:08 AM UTC

caymanjim wrote: post #135

Opt_Out_Fed_IRS wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Your labor and skills are not owed because they got lucky, they are owed because that is what you are exchanging with the owner for money. But if everybody is woke (and that is the case given that we are talking about tech and California) then the company has no choice but to accept wokeness because the money becomes a non factor if it can't be offered to somebody who is not woke . The supply of non woke workers ju…

There is an enormous supply of workers who don't want social and political issues in the workplace, but silently acquiesce because saying anything gets you branded negatively and quickly canceled. It doesn't matter if you agree but prefer keeping it out of the workplace; you must either support the woke brigade or keep your mouth shut.

>..keep your mouth shut Some woke mobs equate silence as being against their cause. YMMV.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#306

Post by planet-and-halo » Sat, May 22, 2021, 2:08 AM UTC

lsh123 wrote: post #276

I always find myself amused at how the people who are involved in the political, social, and other flame wars in the workplace find time to do actual work. Just looking at the threads from earlier this week, I see a couple dozen people posting 50+ posts each every day for at least 2-3 days (each post is anywhere from a half-page to two pages of text with links, images, etc). It would take me at least 5-10 mins per po…

This reminds me of the research showing some tiny percentage of Twitter users, like 3%-4%, are responsible for the vast majority of flamewars. The asymmetry of the internet gives these people the ability to crowd reasonable people out of the commons.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#307

Post by xdennis » Sat, May 22, 2021, 2:08 AM UTC

jdgoesmarching wrote: post #83

yakshaving_jgt wrote: post #3

> last week Alphabet, Google’s parent, had to deal with another internal petition circulating among employees, this one calling on the firm’s leadership to make a statement “recognising the violence in Palestine and Israel”. It's a special kind of hubris to believe that despite over a thousand years of conflict in the region, the right people to comprehensively understand and solve the problem are some people who mak…

Nobody is fighting over theological differences, they are fighting over land. Specifically, land that was conquered by the British who promised it to both parties, failed to manage a compromise, tossed the problem to the UN who drew up horrible borders, then allowed Israel to settle beyond those borders without consequence. The entire history of this issue is roughly 100 years old and almost entirely due to imperiali…

You conveniently start the issue at 100 years ago to frame the issue against Israel.

But it didn't start with the British, nor the Turks before them, nor the Mamluks, Crusader Kingdoms, Arabs or Byzantines. It started when the Romans defeated the Jews 2000 years ago and exiled many of them.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#308

Post by betwixthewires » Sat, May 22, 2021, 2:09 AM UTC

duped wrote: post #21

eric4smith wrote: post #7

People are human. But work is work. The canonical point of a workplace is to come together to fulfill the aims of the entrepreneurs. The personal aims of the workers are fulfilled best outside of work. Just stop to think about it logically for a minute... is the workplace the best place to circulate a petition condemning something that has nothing to do with work? The workplace necessarily is going to bring together…

The office exists within society. Some things exist everywhere you go in society. You don't give up ethics and morals because you cross the threshold of your place of business. Ignoring social problems in the workplace because it is a workplace is how we avoid solving those problems as a society. The office is exactly where we should be advocating for things, because it is where we spend the most time and can affect…

I think its less of a "giving up your ethics and morals because you crossed the threshold" thing and more a "leave your coworkers the fuck alone" thing.

Do you think it is a coincidence that this nonpolitical workplace thing is catching on right now, and not, say, 30 years ago? Nobody was calling for a nonpolitical workplace when the issues at hand were sexual harassment and equal pay for equal work. If there were some hiding behind that, they certainly didn't have a critical mass of support behind them.

The problem isn't so much that people bring their ethics to work as it is that busybodies bring their moral crusades to work and demand that everybody join their cause or be labelled a bad, bad person. I, for example, have taken my ethics everywhere I have gone every day of my life. I have a rebellious spirit. I think rules in jobs like banning tattoos are stupid (even though I have none visible). I think dick in a suit dress codes are hazing and counterproductive. What I have not done however is send out an email chain to everyone in my office demanding that my CEO be fired for not doing a press conference on the plight of the furry fluidgender otherkin in Tanzania.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#309

Post by [deleted] » Sat, May 22, 2021, 2:11 AM UTC

tjs8rj wrote: post #145

tshaddox wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> To some people (I am not one of them at all, but I understand the argument) any abortion is literally murder, and it as a sincerely held belief as the recent movements like BLM and #metoo were. This as well as other parts of your comment seem to imply that you believe the sincerity or intensity with which one holds a particular belief is one of the most important factors in the merits of that belief. I personally d…

I think sincerity is a short hand to cut through partisanship. You believe what you believe sincerely, likely because you find it backed in truth / agreeing with your morals and best intentions. If we assume all humans generally back their sincere beliefs because they find them truthful / backed by their values, the conclusion is that you either have different information or different morals. You can either assume ev…

[deleted]

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#310

Post by justbored123 » Sat, May 22, 2021, 2:12 AM UTC

smegger001 wrote: post #230

archsurface wrote: post #2

I have no tolerance for politics at work. As far as woke at work goes, not too long ago someone in my office commented on slack "I don't approve of unnecessarily gendered emoji" - I can't even begin to imagine what sort of mind produces such thoughts. First world problems? No idea.

the one that gets me is adding race to emoji. they all used to be 'Simpsons yellow', a skin tone not found in any ethnic or racial group, and as such not representing or excluding any group but now we have black white and other various skin tones for our happy-faces. WHY? Does black happy face mean something different than white happy face isn't happiness universal? why bring race into something that was simply meant…

Step back, take a deep breath and read what you wrote.

You are saying that we should not care, but you clearly care if the face is black ... So, somebody decided that he would like to have a black emoji because he like it that and you decided to make an issue out of it ... and accuse the other person of what you yourself are doing ... If you don't see it is because you don't want to see it.

"Why do you see the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye?"