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Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

economist.com

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Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#391

Post by kaitai »

betwixthewires wrote: post #308
duped wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The office exists within society. Some things exist everywhere you go in society. You don't give up ethics and morals because you cross the threshold of your place of business. Ignoring social problems in the workplace because it is a workplace is how we avoid solving those problems as a society. The office is exactly where we should be advocating for things, because it is where we spend the most time and can affect…

I think its less of a "giving up your ethics and morals because you crossed the threshold" thing and more a "leave your coworkers the fuck alone" thing. Do you think it is a coincidence that this nonpolitical workplace thing is catching on right now, and not, say, 30 years ago? Nobody was calling for a nonpolitical workplace when the issues at hand were sexual harassment and equal pay for equal work. If there were so…

That's a really wishful-thinking reading of history. Back when women were coming into the workplace, no, a non-political workplace was not the thing called for -- a male workplace was what was called for. If you need a movie, watch North Country (based on the nonfiction book Class Action).

Then, as now, is that people show up to work in the bodies they have and they get shit for it. People get agitated because there are problems in the world they want to fix. Just 'cause they're not problems for you doesn't mean they're not problems. It's easy to pretend its all about fluidgender otherkin when it's not your problem.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#392

Post by e67f70028a46fba »

ThinkBeat wrote: post #371

One part of the article: This is about a guy who wrote a book on his own time, published it outside of work. Someone did not like some parts of the book and the guy had to quit his job? There is nothing to suggest the man acted improperly at work. I write fictional stories in my spare time (never at work), I enjoy doing it. Some people enjoy reading them (I can't figure out why) It is a sad day for a Democracy when I…

Soon?

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#393

Post by jasonwatkinspdx »

refurb wrote: post #190
jasonwatkinspdx wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am very familiar with anti abortionist activists views due to my family. My mom marched with Operation Rescue during the infamous summer in Wichita that resulted in first a bombing, then eventually a murder done by shooting a doctor in the middle of a church service. There is a deep dishonesty in everything they say. They trot out the abortion is murder phrase constantly, but their behavior reveals that their actua…

Did you just paint an entire political belief based on your own personal experience?

Yes, because I spent the first two decades of my life trapped with a very wide variety of these people. To be clear, I'm specifically talking about the overt activist community.

You have no idea how many hours I was forced to watch cravenly dishonest videos about reproductive biology. It may be anecdotal, but I believe the characterization I'm offering of these people is universal to that activist community and entirely accurate. I would gently suggest you not be so dismissive with a cliched reply like "anecdotes aren't data" which isn't particularly relevant here.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#394

Post by pseudalopex »

wearywanderer wrote: post #101
nefitty wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Although my immediate reaction to the Pyramid of Hate [1] was a similar jump to, “is this saying jokes will lead to genocide?!”, ultimately I don’t think that was the intent. People seemed to have interpreted it in different ways, specifically “You’re telling me I support genocide if I think someone’s name is funny?” I think the people who brought the pyramid into the equation were pointing out how individual behavio…

My perspective on this is you don't lob any sort of infographic about genocide at somebody without meaning to tarnish them. That's escalating the seriousness of a conversation drastically. Making fun of people named Dickinson is not remotely cool, but bringing genocide into the resulting conversation seems way over the line.

The graphic isn't about genocide. It's about all the things mentioned.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#395

Post by PeterisP »

GeneralMayhem wrote: post #336
PeterisP wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While there are all kinds of radical opinions, in USA there are two quite clearly established camps of mainstream opinion, and it does seem reasonable that if roughly half of the country (or your state) vote for one candidate and roughly half for the other, then it should imply that the opinions of both of these camps are roughly equally valid from the perspective of the society. One gets a bit more votes and gets to…

>if roughly half of the country (or your state) vote for one candidate and roughly half for the other, then it should imply that the opinions of both of these camps are roughly equally valid from the perspective of the society. Or, it implies that roughly half of society is wrong . More than one genocidal dictator was originally elected by popular vote. We do not need to take as a premise that equal support implies e…

Sure, mainstream opinions may be wrong, that often happens. However, they're still mainstream opinions, not a few rare extremists that can be just pushed out to edges and excluded. So you can disagree with their wrong opinions, and work to change their mind, but until they do - and even if they don't - in the workplace, you have to be able to work together with people strongly holding those wrong opinions; however wrong these peoople are, they should have equal rights to you. (I mean, weren't you also suggesting throwing out some people off workplaces because of their views?)

And one definitely can advocate for tolerance for the intolerant as well - IIRC Jefferson explitly argued that we should, Popper argues that it won't turn out well and we shouldn't, I'd probably argue for something like John Rawl's position which is essentially tolerance up until actual imminent threat to physical security or perserveration of key institutions, i.e. intolerance of intolerant only as an extraordinary measure, but there are many reasonable arguments about this, there's no consensus agreement on any solution to the paradox of tolerance.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#397

Post by xupybd »

I'm trying to avoid getting involved in politics online. I have a bad habit of speaking my mind and getting into arguments. I'm starting to realize I'm not doing anyone any good, especially me. I think we are struggling to live in a world where everyone's opinion is everywhere. For me at least, I need to learn to live and let live.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#398

Post by yyeess »

wpietri wrote: post #374
eric4smith wrote: post #7

People are human. But work is work. The canonical point of a workplace is to come together to fulfill the aims of the entrepreneurs. The personal aims of the workers are fulfilled best outside of work. Just stop to think about it logically for a minute... is the workplace the best place to circulate a petition condemning something that has nothing to do with work? The workplace necessarily is going to bring together…

> The canonical point of a workplace is to come together to fulfill the aims of the entrepreneurs. I disagree. The notion that humans turn into employer-owned production machinery for 8 hours a day is one very particular way to conceptualize work. But it ignores both the individual as a whole person and the society that contains and enables the workplace to function. To me, even as a former and perhaps future entrepr…

[dead]

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#399

Post by [deleted] »

PurpleFoxy wrote: post #353
caymanjim wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is an enormous supply of workers who don't want social and political issues in the workplace, but silently acquiesce because saying anything gets you branded negatively and quickly canceled. It doesn't matter if you agree but prefer keeping it out of the workplace; you must either support the woke brigade or keep your mouth shut.

Keeping your mouth shut is no longer an option “silence is violence” and “not taking a position is a position” have taken over. The issue at Basecamp was that activists were harassing other employees to get them to make public statements on issues.

[deleted]

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#400

Post by jfengel »

ThinkBeat wrote: post #371

One part of the article: This is about a guy who wrote a book on his own time, published it outside of work. Someone did not like some parts of the book and the guy had to quit his job? There is nothing to suggest the man acted improperly at work. I write fictional stories in my spare time (never at work), I enjoy doing it. Some people enjoy reading them (I can't figure out why) It is a sad day for a Democracy when I…

If only he had a union. But the "right to work" is the right to be fired for any reason or none.
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