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Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

economist.com

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Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#121

Post by nitrogen »

Opt_Out_Fed_IRS wrote: post #107
steverb wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your labor and skills are not owed because they got lucky, they are owed because that is what you are exchanging with the owner for money. They may tolerate (and even enjoy) your personal quirks and causes, but they are paying you to get things done that they don't have the time or skill to do themselves. [Edit: Accidentally left ou a letter]

> Your labor and skills are not owed because they got lucky, they are owed because that is what you are exchanging with the owner for money. But if everybody is woke (and that is the case given that we are talking about tech and California) then the company has no choice but to accept wokeness because the money becomes a non factor if it can't be offered to somebody who is not woke . The supply of non woke workers ju…

The supply of non woke workers just isn't there

The responses to the Basecamp and Coinbase announcements were equally mixed between people who wanted to avoid them, and people who want to seek them out. There are plenty of people who want work to be about working together on work.

I for one want work to be welcoming and productive for everyone. Ironically, the best way to accomplish that is to focus on work, and not non-work.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#122

Post by thrower123 »

eric4smith wrote: post #7

People are human. But work is work. The canonical point of a workplace is to come together to fulfill the aims of the entrepreneurs. The personal aims of the workers are fulfilled best outside of work. Just stop to think about it logically for a minute... is the workplace the best place to circulate a petition condemning something that has nothing to do with work? The workplace necessarily is going to bring together…

Yes. You go to work because they pay you. That's it. I do not care about your politics, and I beg that you don't care about mine. I am not your family. Odds are, I will not choose to be your friend. A professional relationship as coworkers is the goal here.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#123

Post by prepend »

darkhorse22 wrote: post #78
nailer wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To me it seemed less racist when we all had yellow hands. Then again I think poc is a silly term - non Europeans have completely different experiences and cultures from each other even within the US.

It's surely a firable offense, but part of me is so tempted to give a dark-skin-tone thumbs up in Slack as a white guy.

I’ve wondered about this but I’ve never seen anyone use an emoji thumbs up in anything but yellow. I can’t imagine ever setting it to match my skin color, but it would be neat to learn about people who want emojis that look more like them.

If anything, I’d be more likely to choose a color far away from my skin.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#124

Post by rogers18445 »

Politics is what it is precisely because it is vacuous - you signal allegiance and that is all. You as an individual cannot influence anything any more than discussing an incoming storm would influence its trajectory.

But unlike the storm we know that the results of what society produces are determined by the society. And people don't realize or care that they as an individual are not society and have no influence over it in any meaningful capacity.

Many of our problems may be alleviated if game theory was a mandatory class in highschool. But then democracy would perhaps be in peril as people realize voting is as useless to them as is discussing politics. Tragedy of the commons can be a depressing thing.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#125

Post by gsich »

eric4smith wrote: post #7

People are human. But work is work. The canonical point of a workplace is to come together to fulfill the aims of the entrepreneurs. The personal aims of the workers are fulfilled best outside of work. Just stop to think about it logically for a minute... is the workplace the best place to circulate a petition condemning something that has nothing to do with work? The workplace necessarily is going to bring together…

>Shouldn’t we be advocating on non office things outside of the office??

If you want robots, then yes.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#126

Post by ghufran_syed »

geofft wrote: post #96
eric4smith wrote: post #7

People are human. But work is work. The canonical point of a workplace is to come together to fulfill the aims of the entrepreneurs. The personal aims of the workers are fulfilled best outside of work. Just stop to think about it logically for a minute... is the workplace the best place to circulate a petition condemning something that has nothing to do with work? The workplace necessarily is going to bring together…

> The canonical point of a workplace is to come together to fulfill the aims of the entrepreneurs. Absolutely not, and for a very clear reason: the aims of the entrepreneurs are to make money and reduce costs. My aim, in asking for raises, is to increase costs. Are you saying this is inappropriate? I am at work because the company and I came to a mutually beneficial arrangement. They need things done that are better…

presumably you would also be ok with getting paid less money in exchange for more political freedoms at work?

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#127

Post by nefitty »

Opt_Out_Fed_IRS wrote: post #56

This sort of stuff happens when society reaches a level of prosperity so high that it starts worrying about nonsense None of this happens in Mexico The US needs to import fresh blood and fresh brains if it wants to survive. Less people studying social trends and more studying consumer trends.

The UN considers Mexico one of the most violent countries in the world for women. Is that cause outside of workplace-appropriate conversation? You may have chosen a country at random, but it’s disingenuous to say that worrying about femicide is “nonsense”.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violence_against_women_in_Mexi...

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#128

Post by RcouF1uZ4gsC »

nefitty wrote: post #79
nailer wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From having read about the details: someone took a list making fun of mainly European (‘white’ in American) names and posted an image saying mocking people leads to genocide. Yes this is easily separable from making productivity tools.

Although my immediate reaction to the Pyramid of Hate [1] was a similar jump to, “is this saying jokes will lead to genocide?!”, ultimately I don’t think that was the intent. People seemed to have interpreted it in different ways, specifically “You’re telling me I support genocide if I think someone’s name is funny?” I think the people who brought the pyramid into the equation were pointing out how individual behavio…

How is that pyramid not classic slippery slope fallacy?

You could make a pyramid where you have violent movies and playing violent video games leads to a person becoming a serial killer arguing that violent movies and video games desensitize you to murder.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#129

Post by bhupy »

tshaddox wrote: post #117
ixacto wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Advocating for what things exactly? It might be a strawman, but I’m going to guess and it would be something like an end to perceived workplace raceism/sexism/*isms. If you let in political advocacy movements from the left do you really want political movements from the right? Or is it just ok if the left is advocating for it? I kinda think the left is trying to have their equity cake and eat it too… To some people (…

> To some people (I am not one of them at all, but I understand the argument) any abortion is literally murder, and it as a sincerely held belief as the recent movements like BLM and #metoo were. This as well as other parts of your comment seem to imply that you believe the sincerity or intensity with which one holds a particular belief is one of the most important factors in the merits of that belief. I personally d…

This comment seems to imply that certain beliefs (ostensibly your own) are objective truths/facts that hold special merit. This is simply not the case.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#130

Post by astrognomy »

eric4smith wrote: post #67
jdgoesmarching wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was about to say, this is the most chilling HN sentence I’ve ever read. The totality of our existence from 8-5 is not owed to someone who profits from our labor and skills because they got lucky with some seed money or an inheritance a decade ago. That’s just the divine right of kings with extra steps.

Wow. Most businesses are started with neither. But with the sweat off the back of the founders. When will we acknowledge that one of the most noble pursuits in human history is to provide paid employment for your fellow man??

> noble

Telling that you'd use that term.

Not all founders work hard. Not all founders are revolutionary. They are not lords and do not deserve worship. Altruism deserves praise. Employment deserves payment.

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