If I was openly criticizing the boss my expectation would be I was putting my continued employment at risk. That ain’t rocket science.
Then I hope your boss isn't a racist troll.
SpaceX Illegally Fired Workers Critical of Musk, Federal Agency Says
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Re: SpaceX Illegally Fired Workers Critical of Musk, Federal Agency Says
#82[flagged]
This is an issue though, he is so fucking successful that he can't be wrong, right? wrong. Don't put people on pedestals like this, it never ends well and isn't how the world should work.
Re: SpaceX Illegally Fired Workers Critical of Musk, Federal Agency Says
#83Earlier quoted context omitted.
I mean, in many cases that’s grounds for dismissal and legitimately the job of a manager. “Yo, stop bringing politics to work, your job is to make flight controls - not criticize the owners of the company outside of work. You’re being disruptive - stop.” Idk, Musks behavior is what it is, idk why these employees thought it was their role within the company to continue to speak out.
>your job is...not criticize the owners of the company outside of work So companies now own 24 hours of their employees' day?
Ah should have said “not criticize what the owners of the company does outside of work”
The open letter used work resources and hours to go after what their boss did outside of work. Worse, after being told to stop, they continued.
Re: SpaceX Illegally Fired Workers Critical of Musk, Federal Agency Says
#84Re: SpaceX Illegally Fired Workers Critical of Musk, Federal Agency Says
#85Musk's conception of free speech is completely incoherent. On the one hand he claims to want to fund the legal defense of people fired for their tweets[1], on the other hand we have stuff like this. The simplest explanation is that his idea of speech that should be free is: "stuff I agree with" and anything that falls outside of that box can be freely censored or actioned against. Is there an alternative explanation…
Freedom of speech does not mean employees can say whatever they want and not be fired. Freedom of speech means the government can't silence its citizens.
It does, to an extent, in many countries with stronger labor protections. The US has a unique conception of individual rights where they disappear the moment you step into a workplace. This is not, however, universal.
Re: SpaceX Illegally Fired Workers Critical of Musk, Federal Agency Says
#86Earlier quoted context omitted.
>You have the right to act with co-workers to address work-related issues How do Musk’s personal statements/opinions outside of work count as work-related issues? Genuinely asking, I don’t understand how these rules are enforced. Apple has locked down internal communications about non work-related topics on internal slack and email in the wake of RTO discussions. If this is grounds for a lawsuit, I think other compan…
Applying admin controls to Slack is completely different than firing employees for raising concerns For starters, firing someone introduces legitimate damage and liability for those damages if done illegally But also, firing a group of people who are organizing seems like it will run afoul of union protection laws. And to your first question, Musk’s social media tantrums have caused a lot of collateral damage for his…
Also what Apple is doing isn't necessarily legal either. Just because someone else was speeding on the road and didn't get a ticket, doesn't mean you won't.
Re: SpaceX Illegally Fired Workers Critical of Musk, Federal Agency Says
#87Earlier quoted context omitted.
Shotwell literally wrote an email telling them they had to stop discussing the issue or she would consider it insubordination then fired them the next day. No need for HR to do anything when the person in charge is incriminating themselves.
I mean, in many cases that’s grounds for dismissal and legitimately the job of a manager. “Yo, stop bringing politics to work, your job is to make flight controls - not criticize the owners of the company outside of work. You’re being disruptive - stop.” Idk, Musks behavior is what it is, idk why these employees thought it was their role within the company to continue to speak out.
What about the fiduciary duty the company owner has to it’s shareholders, where the employees are part of that group too.
I could also say “shut up your job is to make the stock go up, this isn’t twitter tea party time” to the owner
Re: SpaceX Illegally Fired Workers Critical of Musk, Federal Agency Says
#88Earlier quoted context omitted.
Freedom of speech does not mean employees can say whatever they want and not be fired. Freedom of speech means the government can't silence its citizens.
We're discussing Musk's definition of "freedom of speech", not yours, mine, or the constitution's. He seems to believe you should be able to say whatever you want (on Twitter) and not get fired. This is the definition that's relevant here because his ideas about freedom of speech from his many tweets on the subject don't align with his actions as a leader at Tesla and SpaceX.
Where do you get "and not get fired" from? You seem to be just inventing your own definition and falsely attributing it to Musk.
Not being banned from a platform for a legal post that might be unpopular is not at all the same as never getting fired from an employer.
Re: SpaceX Illegally Fired Workers Critical of Musk, Federal Agency Says
#89Re: SpaceX Illegally Fired Workers Critical of Musk, Federal Agency Says
#90Earlier quoted context omitted.
We're discussing Musk's definition of "freedom of speech", not yours, mine, or the constitution's. He seems to believe you should be able to say whatever you want (on Twitter) and not get fired. This is the definition that's relevant here because his ideas about freedom of speech from his many tweets on the subject don't align with his actions as a leader at Tesla and SpaceX.
Where do you get "and not get fired" from? You seem to be just inventing your own definition and falsely attributing it to Musk. Not being banned from a platform for a legal post that might be unpopular is not at all the same as never getting fired from an employer.
To quote Musk's Tweet[1] on the topic:
> If you were unfairly treated by your employer due to posting or liking something on this platform, we will fund your legal bill.
> No limit.
> Please let us know.
Now "unfairly treated" leaves some wiggle room, but the obvious implication here is that if you get "unfairly" fired for Tweeting something Musk will fund your legal bills. Why would he make this offer if he did not believe that you should have freedom to say (Tweet) things your employer hates without retribution such as getting laid off?