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SpaceX Illegally Fired Workers Critical of Musk, Federal Agency Says

nytimes.com

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Re: SpaceX Illegally Fired Workers Critical of Musk, Federal Agency Says

#71

Post by AlexandrB »

JackFr wrote: post #62
michael1999 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought Musk supported "free speech".

The specifics if this case notwithstanding (I recognize that communications about workplace conditions are protected), if someone was on a slack channel, bulk emailing other employees undermining and disparaging their manager, were asked to stop and they didn’t, isn’t that grounds for termination? They’re free to speak and tweet about it all they want. They’re just no longer an employee.

They should have tweeted about it instead of using a letter, then maybe Musk would have funded their legal defense after they got fired[1].

[1] https://www.theverge.com/22345505/elon-musk-twitter-x-employ...

Re: SpaceX Illegally Fired Workers Critical of Musk, Federal Agency Says

#72

Post by AlexandrB »

camhart wrote: post #70
AlexandrB wrote: post #61

Musk's conception of free speech is completely incoherent. On the one hand he claims to want to fund the legal defense of people fired for their tweets[1], on the other hand we have stuff like this. The simplest explanation is that his idea of speech that should be free is: "stuff I agree with" and anything that falls outside of that box can be freely censored or actioned against. Is there an alternative explanation…

Freedom of speech does not mean employees can say whatever they want and not be fired. Freedom of speech means the government can't silence its citizens.

We're discussing Musk's definition of "freedom of speech", not yours, mine, or the constitution's. He seems to believe you should be able to say whatever you want (on Twitter) and not get fired. This is the definition that's relevant here because his ideas about freedom of speech from his many tweets on the subject don't align with his actions as a leader at Tesla and SpaceX.

Re: SpaceX Illegally Fired Workers Critical of Musk, Federal Agency Says

#74

Post by usea »

lettergram wrote: post #66
tw04 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shotwell literally wrote an email telling them they had to stop discussing the issue or she would consider it insubordination then fired them the next day. No need for HR to do anything when the person in charge is incriminating themselves.

I mean, in many cases that’s grounds for dismissal and legitimately the job of a manager. “Yo, stop bringing politics to work, your job is to make flight controls - not criticize the owners of the company outside of work. You’re being disruptive - stop.” Idk, Musks behavior is what it is, idk why these employees thought it was their role within the company to continue to speak out.

> I mean, in many cases that’s grounds for dismissal and legitimately the job of a manager.

It seems like the NLRB disagrees with you.

Re: SpaceX Illegally Fired Workers Critical of Musk, Federal Agency Says

#76

Post by Skunkleton »

throwawaymaths wrote: post #69
yinser wrote: post #23

Does anyone know where these employees were employed? I’m a worker in a right-to-work state and would love it if this set a precedent for icing out employers from retribution style separations.

I think you mean "at-will", not "right-to-work"

“Right to work” is the new speak for “at-will”

Re: SpaceX Illegally Fired Workers Critical of Musk, Federal Agency Says

#78

Post by AlexandrB »

bboygravity wrote: post #45
imgabe wrote: post #36

8 out of 13,000 employees wanted to circulate a letter complaining about Musk's tweets and the Labor board claims they were "illegally" fired over this. Which law specifically requires employers to permit every employee to spam the company with their personal grievances? This isn't union organization or whistleblowing. They could use a little more detail on how and why they believe this firing is illegal.

[flagged]

Is anything negative that happens to/is said about Musk his own doing, or is everything just a ploy by external entities to bring down a great man?

Re: SpaceX Illegally Fired Workers Critical of Musk, Federal Agency Says

#79

Post by mingus88 »

Dig1t wrote: post #65
pram wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.nlrb.gov/about-nlrb/rights-we-protect/the-law/em...

>You have the right to act with co-workers to address work-related issues How do Musk’s personal statements/opinions outside of work count as work-related issues? Genuinely asking, I don’t understand how these rules are enforced. Apple has locked down internal communications about non work-related topics on internal slack and email in the wake of RTO discussions. If this is grounds for a lawsuit, I think other compan…

Applying admin controls to Slack is completely different than firing employees for raising concerns

For starters, firing someone introduces legitimate damage and liability for those damages if done illegally

But also, firing a group of people who are organizing seems like it will run afoul of union protection laws.

And to your first question, Musk’s social media tantrums have caused a lot of collateral damage for his companies. I believe the Tesla board also raised concerns that his Twitter meltdown had negatively impacted Tesla. It’s not hard to see how.

Re: SpaceX Illegally Fired Workers Critical of Musk, Federal Agency Says

#80

Post by jon_richards »

Skunkleton wrote: post #76
throwawaymaths wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you mean "at-will", not "right-to-work"

“Right to work” is the new speak for “at-will”

Aren’t they orthogonal concepts? Right to work means you can’t be forced into playing Union dues (you have a “right” to scab) and “at will” means the employer can fire anyone at any time for any reason (other than protected classes).
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