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Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

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Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#751

Post by hwillis »

lamontcg wrote: post #570
andersa wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Epic doesn't care whether Apple shows "grace", or needs them to, they are going in by force with the backing of the EU legislation. It might just take a year or two longer to get through the courts. They can hold out that long without any problems, preparing their store in the background.

Yeah, its really weird to appeal to the noble intentions of a corporation. They're both just engaged in business. I can believe that Apple is acting incredibly badly in this case without needing to fluff up Epic Games at all. Apple and Samsung could sue each other and do business with each other because the stakes were lower and they were more codependent.

That's just the opposite kind of naive. Companies are still for the most part run by CEOs, and many of those CEOs have tremendous egos and most of them have a tremendous ability to direct the actions of those companies. Look at Tesla and Twitter lawsuits- they're clearly in Musks's interests.

Companies aren't minds of their own directing their own actions. Tim cook or some other high level executive is deciding these actions. Stop abrogating the direction of the literal directors

Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#752

Post by makeitdouble »

0x457 wrote: post #649
madeofpalk wrote: post #507

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Game developers and console makers tend to have a much cosier relationship because they actually care about each other. Console makers will engage in co-marketing deals or other things to entice and make good on their relationship.

> Game developers and console makers tend to have a much cosier relationship because they actually care about each other. lmao, in what world? Apple used to bring Epic games on stage during it presentations. The difference between a gaming console and a phone is that your phone is in your pocket and the console isn't. Both provide libraries and tools for development, both provide support, both provide distribution ch…

Apple used to bring Epic games on stage during it presentations.

That seems to be the full extent of their collaboration. No specific deals, no specific adjustments, just having them at PR events and nothing more.

The weirdest thing to me is they couldn't even come up with a deal with Microsoft and the Xbox streaming app when historically MS saved Apple's bacon at the most crucial time.

Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#753

Post by lxgr »

scarface_74 wrote: post #579
andersa wrote: post #447

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is about Epic having access to the EU market.

That’s why it’s a Pyrrhic victory. They have access to the EU market which is much less profitable than the US market.

Right now they have access to neither. A less-than-complete win is not a Phyrric victory.

Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#754

Post by lxgr »

akira2501 wrote: post #690
lxgr wrote: post #552

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It certainly threatens their app store revenue, and by extension market value, so it's rational for them to push back, but by no means is it an "existential problem". Apple is quite a bit more than just the app store. There's probably risks on both sides here, too: Playing hardball with EU regulators and courts could cost them a lot of money.

> so it's rational for them to push back If your vision for your company only extends to the next quarterly earnings report, sure, it's "rational." If you consider the fact that every other participant in the market dislikes this practice, that this dislike has finally risen to the level of government involvement, and that laws are about to be written taking it away from you, then clutching it to your chest is best u…

I fully agree that what they’re doing now is absurd and way too much. But no resistance at all might expose them to shareholder action in the US.

Still, about 10% of the pushback they’ve been showing so far would have probably been plenty.

Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#755

Post by usefulcat »

wkat4242 wrote: post #614
lamontcg wrote: post #570

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, its really weird to appeal to the noble intentions of a corporation. They're both just engaged in business. I can believe that Apple is acting incredibly badly in this case without needing to fluff up Epic Games at all. Apple and Samsung could sue each other and do business with each other because the stakes were lower and they were more codependent.

> Yeah, its really weird to appeal to the noble intentions of a corporation. They're both just engaged in business. This is what's wrong with the current overly capitalist system. Companies are totally allowed to have no conscience, and externalise whatever they please to consumers and the environment. And you could even argue they are 'forced' to do so by due diligence legislation. If we let this continue there will…

It's entirely a matter of incentives. Companies are like machines whose sole purpose is to make a profit. Pretty much everything they do apart from that (make products, employ people, pollute, etc) is, strictly speaking, a side effect.

If they could make just as much money (or more) without doing any of those other things, they absolutely would, and any company that wouldn't do the same would eventually be put out of business via competition, barring some kind of external intervention, say from the state.

If you want companies to grow a conscience, you're first going to have to figure out how to change their incentives, which means changing the environment in which they operate.

Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#756

Post by Brian_K_White »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #326
Brian_K_White wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Steve hated industry standards. The only time he ever said anything else was when every web site in the world ran on flash and iphone couldn't do flash. Every iphone user was reminded daily about how kneecapped it is when they can't pull up the web site for the restaursnt to check hours or call up for a reservation. That kind of life experience was his entire focus and his showpiece product failed utterly at it. And…

> Steve hated industry standards. > The only time he ever said anything else was when every web site in the world ran on flash and iphone couldn't do flash. NeXTSTEP, the Steve Jobs thing that got renamed as Mac OS X when Apple bought it, was based on BSD Unix. In the early 2000s, Apple produced and used a lot of open standards. "Darwin" was open source. Bonjour is mDNS. Apple developed CUPS and open sourced it. Then…

Building on BSDs open software was just the same playbook as building on Woz's open hardware before that.

Any flexibility left in the final product is not because of Steve, it's in spite of Steve.

It starts with there is already something good and useful and unencumbered that engineers built for themselves.

It's good and useful, so it's saleable, and it's unencumbered, so it's free to be simply harvested like an apple (haha).

But then he takes that starting point and foundation, and tries to do the saleable part as much as possible and the useful part as little as possible.

He does invest a lot of further work, but most of that work other than the ux is not in service to the user.

Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#757

Post by daemin »

amelius wrote: post #742
layer8 wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue is that Epic doesn’t want to be Apple’s customer in the first place. They want to publish iOS apps. The fact that this requires them to be an Apple customer is the core problem. Imagine if everyone wanting to publish a web app would have to be a customer of the respective browser vendors. Everyone complains about Google and Mozilla and Safari and Edge. Luckily, that doesn’t prevent us from having our web ap…

> The issue is that Epic doesn’t want to be Apple’s customer in the first place. They want to publish iOS apps. The fact that this requires them to be an Apple customer is the core problem. Indeed. It all boils down to: if I buy a product from company A, then want to use that product to do business with company B, why does company A have anything to say about it? Am I not the owner of my device?

Increasingly in this modern world, no, you are not the owner of the device. You're more like purchasing the right to use it for a time, in the way that the makers want you to use it. This applies across PCs, Macs, and Phones where Microsoft, Apple, and Google all try to up-sell you on their online services and now their "AI tools".

Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#758

Post by jesselawson »

vld_chk wrote: post #138

Idk, subjectively it feels as end of Apple we all know. Clear stagnation in terms of innovation; no new fundamental interface (no smart glasses, AVP looks too expensive and too narrow); abandon on car project; AI for Apple is nowhere close to others; sales decrease; Apple Watch sales ban; Epic Games court; DMA — after taking a leading position at the market, Apple clearly fails to offer anything new and instead inves…

Apple has consistently made laptops and development environments that creative types enjoy and admire. It’s too mad our economic system is setup to only care about infinite growth and monopolization at Apple’s size. It’s too bad just “being a great maker of great tools for great people” isn’t possible when you’re publicly traded.

Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#759

Post by kohbo »

dwaite wrote: post #717
Phrodo_00 wrote: post #393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Publishing a Chrome browser extension more-or-less requires being a customer of the Chrome Web Store Emphasis on more-or-less, though. You can use Chrome developer mode (which is NOT a paid option and doesn't require an account) to import extensions from files. You can't do that in iOS. That's Epic's point.

Do you think this is a viable distribution model for web extensions, e.g. an alternative to the Chrome Web Store?

I think the point is that an alternative installation method is already provided in the browser

Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#760

Post by [deleted] »

disgruntledphd2 wrote: post #422
Despegar wrote: post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This will be another issue determined by EU courts, but Apple is not justifying it as a show of force. They're justifying it based on Epic's prior breach of contract and statements they've made. I think based on the record, courts will side with Apple.

The EU courts won't, nor will the Commission.

[deleted]
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