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Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

techcrunch.com

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Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#441

Post by jmole »

015a wrote: post #378

This is egregious and deeply disturbing behavior from Apple. At this point it feels wrong to own an iPhone. I'm at a loss for words describing what Tim and their leadership team has done to this company that I used to admire so much.

Couldn't agree more. I think the iPhone 15 Pro may be my last iPhone. Apple's entire reaction to the DMA has left an incredibly bad taste in my mouth.

I used to think these were my devices, but Apple has been making it crystal clear lately that they consider them to be their devices.

"We own the customer" is the new mantra of Apple.

Maybe it was always that way, with the iPod and iTunes, etc.

Thankfully I've never felt that way when using a Mac.

Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#442

Post by layer8 »

chongli wrote: post #420
api wrote: post #398

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're addicted to bad revenue here. Once they started with the App Store revenue and especially taking a cut on all transactions, they were locked in. It's a public company so number must always go up. If number doesn't go up, executives are gone and replaced with people who will make number go up. That means it's impossible for them to back out of the App Store revenue channel. They'll have to be forced out by gov…

The issue for Apple is that their hardware business is slowing down due to market saturation. Their recent attempt at growth into a new hardware market (Vision Pro) seems like a huge dud. Their last successful new product was the Watch which at about 100 million sales in total is only half of a single year’s iPhone sales (and likely less profitable). So where do they go from here?

They may have to realize that unlimited growth is simply not possible.

Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#443

Post by Zambyte »

015a wrote: post #378

This is egregious and deeply disturbing behavior from Apple. At this point it feels wrong to own an iPhone. I'm at a loss for words describing what Tim and their leadership team has done to this company that I used to admire so much.

The fact that Apple (the 3rd party in the interaction between you and the developer) has a say at all in what people do with their computers at all is already egregious. I couldn't imagine letting someone else control my computers like that.

Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#444

Post by Narishma »

zshrc wrote: post #268
FirmwareBurner wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Apple has plenty of competition What competition? Apple has a 87% market share amongst US teenage population[1], Epic's core gamer market. It's basically a monopoly amongst their core demographic which will grow up to be adults with jobs and paycheck and guess what they'll buy? More Apple. With [1] https://www.barrons.com/articles/apple-stock-teens-iphone-e5...

But is anyone prohibited from going out and buying an Android? I see plenty of Samsung ads on TV. Does Apple stop you from downloading Signal and communicating with your Android friends that way? It's called "competitive advantage" in the US.

> But is anyone prohibited from going out and buying an Android?

Yes, through social pressure.

Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#445

Post by AJ007 »

chongli wrote: post #420
api wrote: post #398

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're addicted to bad revenue here. Once they started with the App Store revenue and especially taking a cut on all transactions, they were locked in. It's a public company so number must always go up. If number doesn't go up, executives are gone and replaced with people who will make number go up. That means it's impossible for them to back out of the App Store revenue channel. They'll have to be forced out by gov…

The issue for Apple is that their hardware business is slowing down due to market saturation. Their recent attempt at growth into a new hardware market (Vision Pro) seems like a huge dud. Their last successful new product was the Watch which at about 100 million sales in total is only half of a single year’s iPhone sales (and likely less profitable). So where do they go from here?

Focus on not slaughtering their golden goose. Public companies absolutely do not need to grow revenue and many industries remain in states of decline for decades. However, lack of growth means the stock option party is over for employees.

Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#446

Post by elevatedastalt »

api wrote: post #398
015a wrote: post #378

This is egregious and deeply disturbing behavior from Apple. At this point it feels wrong to own an iPhone. I'm at a loss for words describing what Tim and their leadership team has done to this company that I used to admire so much.

They're addicted to bad revenue here. Once they started with the App Store revenue and especially taking a cut on all transactions, they were locked in. It's a public company so number must always go up. If number doesn't go up, executives are gone and replaced with people who will make number go up. That means it's impossible for them to back out of the App Store revenue channel. They'll have to be forced out by gov…

Dunno why you are being downvoted. Regardless of what one thinks of Apple charging 30% tax on their dominion, the fact that it's now become a sort of dependency is correct.

Governments have the same problem. Once you start taxing, it becomes hard to give up the revenue stream.

Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#447

Post by andersa »

scarface_74 wrote: post #374
andersa wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Epic doesn't care whether Apple shows "grace", or needs them to, they are going in by force with the backing of the EU legislation. It might just take a year or two longer to get through the courts. They can hold out that long without any problems, preparing their store in the background.

That’s very much a Pyrrhic victory if Eoic doesn’t have access to the US market. The court ruling in the US said that Apple has the right to terminate their account. From the linked article > This judgment stated that “Apple has the contractual right to terminate its DPLA with any or all of Epic Games’ wholly owned subsidiaries, affiliates, and/or other entities under Epic Games’ control at any time and at Apple’s so…

This is about Epic having access to the EU market.

Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#448

Post by threeseed »

jsnell wrote: post #416
threeseed wrote: post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

a) It is fair and non-discriminatory. Epic was found by the courts to have violated the terms of the agreement that they signed and Apple had the right to terminate it. They have done this with other developers as well. b) Epic is not their main competitor in anything.

Have any other companies announced credible plans for a competing app store? I'm at least not aware of any, which would absolutely make Epic their main competitor. It is pretty hilarious how people think some US court judgement would have any relevance on EU anti-trust regulation.

I think you're confused how this works.

Apple doesn't need a court judgement to terminate a contract. They can just do it if they believe terms have been broken. Epic sued them in the US to reverse this decision and the courts found in favour of Apple. The process in the EU starts the same way.

And this is a basic contractual dispute seperate from the DMA which is why the many other parties have not also had their contracts terminated.

Also running an App Store is hard. It's going to take more than a few days to see competitors.

Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#449

Post by pulse7 »

Eric_WVGG wrote: post #404
015a wrote: post #378

This is egregious and deeply disturbing behavior from Apple. At this point it feels wrong to own an iPhone. I'm at a loss for words describing what Tim and their leadership team has done to this company that I used to admire so much.

I just don't understand what Apple expects out of the situation at this point. What's the best-case scenario here, that the EU will say "yeah that checks out" and let Apple have their way after all? This is going to backfire horribly.

Apple just prepared the ground for the next billion dollar EU fine...

Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#450

Post by elevatedastalt »

AJ007 wrote: post #439
disgruntledphd2 wrote: post #417

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They already have an ads business, fwiw.

And ads is the one line of business that is growing. All of the privacy and app tracking restrictions conveniently relate to them having all of the tracking data and third parties not having it. Your data is "private", to everyone except Apple. This is the reason Apple is violently opposing any software coming from sources they don't control. The way the DMA was written is a convoluted joke. It could have been a lot…

Then Apple would simply say they are not blocking third party software from their hardware (iPhones), they are just blocking it from running on their software (iOS).

Making a law is inherently a messy job, if you think you can replace a 100 page document with 100 words, there's a good chance you are overlooking a lot of complexity.

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