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Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

techcrunch.com

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Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#401

Post by Phrodo_00 »

threeseed wrote: post #392
codingcodingboy wrote: post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why didn't the EU force the removal of those requirements? Apple will keep playing games to make alternative stores uncompetitive and keep away unwanted developers.

Because it's still Apple's platform. And they have a right to prevent apps that harm the integrity of the overall platform which is what notarisation is designed to prevent. Also companies have always charged a fee for using their SDKs. Even today Epic does this i.e. 12%.

> Because it's still Apple's platform.

It's not Apple's devices, though.

Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#402

Post by screamingninja »

MR4D wrote: post #97

Maybe Epic should just come out with their own Android-based phone and ignore Apple. EDIT - I don’t mean this flippantly. I really think a gaming phone made by Epic would be fantastic. They have some great games that I enjoy, including Rocket League and Fortnite. Would love to see what they could do with a phone, especially how well they did on GM’s Hummer ( https://www.theverge.com/2020/10/7/21506572/epic-games-unre…

Something like Steam Deck? https://www.steamdeck.com/

Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#403

Post by hu3 »

samatman wrote: post #371
andersa wrote: post #40

The fines Apple is going to collect for intentionally failing to comply with the DMA are going to be of Epic proportions, exceeding any profit they could have gotten by continuing to steal 30% from society. Ready your popcorn buckets for the next few months/years. They will likely be making an example out of Apple - after all Apple and Google are the reason for this legislation to exist in the first place. > In the n…

Sounds like Apple should exit the European market then. No one is forcing them to do business there, and it only accounts for 10% of their revenue.

Apple bent over pretty hard to stay in China [1] and they'll do the same for EU.

Because if they don't, the network effects of an entire important continent without Apple's strong presence would be devastating long-term.

[1]:

- "Apple tells suppliers to use 'Taiwan, China' or 'Chinese Taipei' to appease Beijing" https://www.theregister.com/2022/08/05/apple_warns_suppliers...

- "The problem with canceling Jon Stewart: Apple bowed to Chinese government censorship" https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/voices/2023/10/26/jon...

- "Apple pulls Taiwanese flag emoji from iPhones in Hong Kong" https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2019-10-08/apple-taiw...

Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#404

Post by Eric_WVGG »

015a wrote: post #378

This is egregious and deeply disturbing behavior from Apple. At this point it feels wrong to own an iPhone. I'm at a loss for words describing what Tim and their leadership team has done to this company that I used to admire so much.

I just don't understand what Apple expects out of the situation at this point. What's the best-case scenario here, that the EU will say "yeah that checks out" and let Apple have their way after all? This is going to backfire horribly.

Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#405

Post by threeseed »

casperb wrote: post #372

I just finished the last episode of The Talk Show podcast, where John Gruber says that Apple doesn’t hold a grudge and is only doing things because they make business sense. He said that because Apple approved Epic’s account and that they would be allowed their own App Store. I already that it was a bad take, but this shows it.

There is no point having rules and contracts if you aren't going to enforce them.

It is inarguable that Epic broke the terms of the contract. They could've simply done what Spotify and others did and lobby governments whilst honouring the terms of the agreement that they voluntarily chose to sign. Instead Epic chose to be petty in order to prove a point.

Is Spotify banned ? No. And they are 100x a competitor to Apple than Epic is.

Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#406

Post by kccqzy »

davely wrote: post #394
casperb wrote: post #372

I just finished the last episode of The Talk Show podcast, where John Gruber says that Apple doesn’t hold a grudge and is only doing things because they make business sense. He said that because Apple approved Epic’s account and that they would be allowed their own App Store. I already that it was a bad take, but this shows it.

I find that Gruber occasionally has some interesting insight but it’s often hard to take him seriously these days — he’s effectively an unofficial PR outlet for Apple. (Fun fact: he co-created Markdown with Aaron Swartz) Edit: Swartz not Schwartz

It's a sad evolution. Gruber's blog is entitled Daring Fireball and in his early blogging days in the '00s he was in fact pretty daring and posted a lot of criticisms of Apple. Over time he had so thoroughly assimilated himself into the Apple way of thinking that he seldom notices whatever Apple is doing wrong.

Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#407

Post by 123yawaworht456 »

apozem wrote: post #116
Fin_Code wrote: post #7

Sounds like they violated a non disparagement clause and signaled they will not adhere to policy. All they had to do is keep quiet and launch to minimize their liability. Guess they will need to fight in the EU to see if they can claw back.

Apple's lawyer states no such thing, only that they have the right to revoke anyone's developer account for any time and for any reason. They believe Epic will violate their rules in the future and affect iOS users' privacy and safety, so they banned them. I know this is the internet, and no one actually reads the linked articles, but I really wish people would do so before weighing in. You did not need to make up a…

>safety

the past few years made me really fucking hate that word.

Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#408

Post by beezle »

layer8 wrote: post #334
hizanberg wrote: post #18

If I had a Customer that spent years relentlessly complaining about my Company, I know I wouldn't want to have them as a Customer. It does present an interesting question on whether a Company can be forced to have a bad actor as a Customer, I guess this will be decided in the lawsuits to come.

The issue is that Epic doesn’t want to be Apple’s customer in the first place. They want to publish iOS apps. The fact that this requires them to be an Apple customer is the core problem. Imagine if everyone wanting to publish a web app would have to be a customer of the respective browser vendors. Everyone complains about Google and Mozilla and Safari and Edge. Luckily, that doesn’t prevent us from having our web ap…

A better analogy might be if a tire company could only sell its tires through the Ford/GM "store"/dealership. Nobody would put up with that.

Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#409

Post by drawnwren »

gray_-_wolf wrote: post #239
drawnwren wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what are their margins? an $18B fine starts to make it seem possible that it would be profitable to not sell there.

Or, you know, they could just comply with our laws...

I think their point of view would be that they’re selling a global product and the value of serving a market needs to exceed the cost of the peculiarities of serving it.

Maybe there’s a complex solution here, but the naive one of global compliance to local demands needs an evaluation of cost vs reward. There’s also the somewhat possible concern that the EU might actually just be hostile to Apple and cutting losses now against possible future losses makes sense. (Again, remember we’re presuming order of magnitude increases in fines).

Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#410

Post by scarface_74 »

Brian_K_White wrote: post #69
mrtksn wrote: post #45

I wonder why Apple doesn't open up their platforms to have everything best on their devices instead of fighting and agonising developers and governments. Yes yes, the commission is nice but they might be killing the goose that lays the golden eggs. I mean, Apple is amazingly good in some areas but in some other areas their products are used only because they don't give a choice and they intent to keep it this way. Th…

Steve hated industry standards. The only time he ever said anything else was when every web site in the world ran on flash and iphone couldn't do flash. Every iphone user was reminded daily about how kneecapped it is when they can't pull up the web site for the restaursnt to check hours or call up for a reservation. That kind of life experience was his entire focus and his showpiece product failed utterly at it. And…

So now the truth.

Adobe claimed that if Apple had let them, they could have gotten Flash running on the first iPhone that had 128Kb of RAM and a 400Mhz processor. Safari could barely run on the phone. If you scrolled fast, you would get a checkerbox while waiting for the page to render.

When Adobe did finally bring Flash to mobile in 2010-2011 on Android, it required a 1Ghz processor and 1GB of RAM and it still ran badly. An iPhone with similar specs didn’t come out until 2011.

The iMac came with only USB in 1997 before most PCs fully adopted it. The original iPod played MP3s and later AAC files and even later standard H.264 and MPegs files.

The original iPhone only supported HTML5.

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