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Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

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Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#131

Post by zshrc »

FirmwareBurner wrote: post #101
zshrc wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We own this platform, (we built this platform), we make the rules I don't see the issue with this... it's not like they're exploiting an inherited platform like Oracle with (everything), IBM with Red Hat or Broadcom with VMware.

Would you also defend Microsoft of the 90's with the same argument for the similar issue? At least Microsoft had no way of stopping you selling apps for Windows but Apple is a next level of nefarious.

Microsoft didn't have competition in the 90s. Apple has plenty of competition, they've just built up a competitive advantage which is their fully-integrated platform. Googles been trying to build one on the Pixel for years and haven't come close to their success.

Apples been doing this "next level of nefarious" since the App Store's introduction in iPhoneOS 3.0, and it's been fine up to this point, otherwise the platform (and consequentially the apps on these platform -- spotify) wouldn't have thrived the way it did.

Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#132

Post by JumpCrisscross »

minimaxir wrote: post #124
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> watching Apple be maximally aggressive Sweeney allegedly tweeted that he would breach his contract with Apple. Apple reached out and asked if he was being hysterical for public display. He didn’t clarify. At that point, Epic credibly threatened breach of contract. This is a commercial dispute between multi-billion dollar companies, both of whom charge outrageous platform fees, both of whom seem to enjoy being drama…

> At that point, Epic credibly threatened breach of contract. A threat of a breach of contract is not a breach of contract, which will be a sticking point if the EU gets involved again.

> threat of a breach of contract is not a breach of contract

I don’t know EU law. But anticipatory breach is enough to trigger damages under American law, and “is an excuse for non-performance by the non-breaching party” [1].

[1] https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/anticipatory_breach

Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#133

Post by Jensson »

VWWHFSfQ wrote: post #50
BearOso wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no chance the DMA includes a non disparagement clause. That's totally against free speech.

Free speech has nothing to do with any of this

Apple terminated Epics account for Epic criticizing Apple, not for anything Epic did with the account. That is a free speech violation, retaliating for unrelated speech is against the ideal of free speech.

USAs free speech laws mostly just bans governments from retaliating, but a more encompassing law would also ban corporations from doing so as well, there is no reason you should fear speaking up just because the corporation might retaliate and ruin your life. USA already has such anti retaliation laws for companies in some cases so there is nothing unreasonable about it.

Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#134

Post by [deleted] »

NBJack wrote: post #16
ajaimk wrote: post #11

They got kicked out for willingly breaking the rules in the past. Not for criticizing Apple. Actions have consequences.

From the article: > Apple said one of the reasons they terminated our developer account only a few weeks after approving it was because we publicly criticized their proposed DMA compliance plan. Apple cited this X post from this thread written by Tim Sweeney. Apple is retaliating against Epic for speaking out against Apple’s unfair and illegal practices, just as they’ve done to other developers time and time again.

[deleted]

Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#135

Post by benced »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #96
benced wrote: post #73

Even setting aside the dubious morality of Apple's rules on iOS, I feel like I'm going insane watching Apple be maximally aggressive. The EU loves regulating! There's nothing they love more! It seems supremely unwise to give them additional excuses to do something they clearly want to do anyways.

> watching Apple be maximally aggressive Sweeney allegedly tweeted that he would breach his contract with Apple. Apple reached out and asked if he was being hysterical for public display. He didn’t clarify. At that point, Epic credibly threatened breach of contract. This is a commercial dispute between multi-billion dollar companies, both of whom charge outrageous platform fees, both of whom seem to enjoy being drama…

This is flatly false.

Schiller emailed Sweeney asking for assurances and Sweeney responded with:

> Epic and its subsidiaries are acting in good faith and will comply with all terms of current and future agreements with Apple, and we'll be glad to provide Apple with any specific further assurances on the topic that you'd like.

Without reply, Apple summarily terminated their developer account a week later. It seems obvious, in retrospect, that Schiller's email's goal was to establish a fig leaf of Apple having reached out before doing this.

It is indeed true that Sweeney has tweeted many criticisms of Apple's DMA plans but there haven't been any threatening noncompliance.

Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#136

Post by CamperBob2 »

s3r3nity wrote: post #91
hellcow wrote: post #83

Clearly the recent 1.8B Euro fine the EU levied against Apple didn't send a message. Perhaps the EU needs to ratchet it up by an order of magnitude.

Quite an authoritarian take.

The unelected 'authority' being Apple, of course.

Apple's choice was apparently to die as a hammer-wielding hero or live long enough to become the patriarch on the telescreen.

Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#137

Post by benced »

izacus wrote: post #107
benced wrote: post #73

Even setting aside the dubious morality of Apple's rules on iOS, I feel like I'm going insane watching Apple be maximally aggressive. The EU loves regulating! There's nothing they love more! It seems supremely unwise to give them additional excuses to do something they clearly want to do anyways.

Having worked for many bosses, never ever never undersestimate the power of ego of an executive. It's only second to the ego of a lawyer. Many of them will tank their company and their client if they get their ego bruised and feel publicly humiliated. Those are hyper competitive people which see live as zero sum game and are trained in life to never, ever, lose a challenge or competition for domination. ESPECIALLY in…

It's hard to avoid any conclusion but this one.

Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#138

Post by vld_chk »

Idk, subjectively it feels as end of Apple we all know.

Clear stagnation in terms of innovation; no new fundamental interface (no smart glasses, AVP looks too expensive and too narrow); abandon on car project; AI for Apple is nowhere close to others; sales decrease; Apple Watch sales ban; Epic Games court; DMA — after taking a leading position at the market, Apple clearly fails to offer anything new and instead invest too much resources into protecting their market position.

Wonder what will replace Apple. Will we see a slow stagnation here or radically new interface for human-to-technology interaction is around the corner?

Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#139

Post by paulmd »

dmitrygr wrote: post #65

Epic is learning the lesson that Nvidia had to learn. Apple holds grudges. Honestly, it was idiotic of them to expect anything else. Maybe they thought that they were more Samsung-like and after being a huge pain to apple, life will resume normalcy. Apple needed Samsung. They do not need Epic.

people really think bumpgate was about some issue that also affected AMD too and not closing the door on NVIDIA building a platform inside Apple's platform and shifting the balance of power?

you've been reading way too much semiaccurate lol

https://blog.greggant.com/posts/2021/10/13/apple-vs-nvidia-w...

like, we have the benefit of a decade of retrospect and watched nvidia do exactly the thing that apple refuses to let their partners ever do (namely: wear the pants in the relationship), and you're still taking charlie's takes at face value. Do you really think it's the bumps and not Apple taking action to protect themselves and their future products against the threat of competitive lock-in posed by NVIDIA and CUDA?

it is just amazing that people continue to take the guy seriously. How is that "NVIDIA is 4+ years behind AMD in the mid-term, and GV100 and GP100 are bumpgate 2.0" working out for you? Was ~2015-2020 a good period for Radeon Group?

https://www.semiaccurate.com/2013/05/20/nvidias-volta-gpu-ra...

https://www.semiaccurate.com/2015/05/19/amd-finally-talks-hb...

https://www.semiaccurate.com/2016/05/03/thing-go-bumpgate-in...

https://www.semiaccurate.com/2016/06/08/nvidia-p100-gpu-upda...

https://www.semiaccurate.com/2016/08/01/nvidia-finally-shows...

https://www.semiaccurate.com/2014/09/15/amds-mantle-api-goin...

it's amazing that people will sniff out a MLID quote from a thousand paces and yet still uncritically babble Charlie's nonsense like it's the word of god. Dude is a stopped clock who occasionally happens to be correct in his NVIDIA/Intel hatewagon, and that's given him enough reputability that he's apparently beyond reproach with a significant portion of the Gaming Public (tm) who are just looking for reasons to be upset about NVIDIA/Intel.

Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#140

Post by itsdrewmiller »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #96
benced wrote: post #73

Even setting aside the dubious morality of Apple's rules on iOS, I feel like I'm going insane watching Apple be maximally aggressive. The EU loves regulating! There's nothing they love more! It seems supremely unwise to give them additional excuses to do something they clearly want to do anyways.

> watching Apple be maximally aggressive Sweeney allegedly tweeted that he would breach his contract with Apple. Apple reached out and asked if he was being hysterical for public display. He didn’t clarify. At that point, Epic credibly threatened breach of contract. This is a commercial dispute between multi-billion dollar companies, both of whom charge outrageous platform fees, both of whom seem to enjoy being drama…

Epic has a 12% fee, while Apple has a 30% fee - I don't think those are equally outrageous and I would go so far as to say one is extremely reasonable.
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