Police attacks against journalists across the U.S. since May 28 • Hacker News Board

Re: Police attacks against journalists across the U.S. since May 28

#751

Post by specialist » Wed, Jun 03, 2020, 1:39 PM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #484

throwablePie wrote: post #350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Race relations between Oakland's black residents and Oakland police have been fraught for decades (probably at least since the founding of the Black Panther Party in Oakland in the 60s). But that doesn't justify the violent actions you've described. Unfortunately, some senior "dog whistle" politicians have labeled protesters "thugs" and "looters" and have called for "shooting" and "no quarter." These loose words are…

While I think Cotton is a jackass, I can’t help but notice how your first paragraph is about Oakland, California, and your second paragraph is about a guy who is a Senator in Kentucky.[1] Oakland has had a Democratic mayor since 1977. California routinely has a super-majority of Democrats in the state legislature, and the last Republican Federal Senator from the state left office almost 30 years ago. I don’t think it…

re Cotton: Like many other markets, politics is now one large national market.

Re: Police attacks against journalists across the U.S. since May 28

#752

Post by aspenmayer » Wed, Jun 03, 2020, 1:53 PM UTC

grupthink wrote: post #741

vagrantJin wrote: post #733

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ...isn’t that like condemning all blacks when one commits murder? I believe that's the case already, Ergo, racism. If peaceful placards and singing kumbaya really did work effectively , for black people in particular all over the world, we'd have a very different discussion. Police brutality is an extension of the governments very existence - "legitimate" violence - which is turned up to war-time levels when minori…

Singing Kumbaya would fix nothing, just like looting fixes nothing - don’t strawman me. I’ve yet to see any justification for the theft and vandalism. If you believe police brutality is a systemic problem in the government, might I suggest you fix the problem in that arena instead of on the streets? If you feel compelled to protest, maybe do it in a manner that actually communicates your demands. The person who kille…

Looting proves that protest is amorphous, not black and white, and protest will autonomously raise the stakes when the risks associated with mass public social action is considered low, or the frequency between social progress payouts is too high, or the demand for social progress reaches a tipping point.

Re: Police attacks against journalists across the U.S. since May 28

#753

Post by supportlocal4h » Wed, Jun 03, 2020, 2:03 PM UTC

grupthink wrote: post #705

devin wrote: post #647

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmm, I'm sorry, but we have to talk. 1. Rubber bullets kill when they are used in the exact opposite way they were intended. They are not meant to be fired at people's heads. If used, they should be fired at the legs to incapacitate. This is covered in training. I very much doubt it's an accident that they wind up hitting someone in the temple. 2. I did not explicitly authorize escalation between my city police and p…

Good point about context. Are these looters stealing bread for survival? I see them looting jewelers and high end retailers, like Gucci then torching the place. What is the motive? If you believe these looters are doing so for justice, then know that the people who killed Floyd will be tried for their crimes and that you can not cast all law enforcement officers with the same stone. The people that pinned down Floyd…

I live in an affluent community. Many of my neighbors are police officers. When I read that an officer in the city had been shot, I worried for the people I know. I don't condone violent protests.

But I feel compelled to object to your seeming attitude that things would work themselves out without the need to protest.

I strongly believe that two wrongs don't make a right. But one wrong observed in silence is tragic.

You question the reason for protest when there is some bill being introduced. I posit that the bill would not exist without the protests. I also remind you that a horrible, terrible war was fought to end inequality over 150 years ago. I remind you that the civil rights movement was more than 50 years ago. Why protest when those already solved all the problems?

We must always be willing to step up against injustice. It is not a one and done proposition.

This in no way excuses people who are just taking the opportunity to steal a TV. Or who mistakenly channel their emotions by destroying or injuring.

Re: Police attacks against journalists across the U.S. since May 28

#754

Post by stronglikedan » Wed, Jun 03, 2020, 2:09 PM UTC

zouhair wrote: post #163

jascii wrote: post #133

Disclaimer: I am a bleeding heart liberal and this may filter my observations. I have been to a few rallies/vigils/marches lately and all incidences of violence that I have witnessed either in person or through media has been instigated by the police. As far as I know,every documented case where a formerly peaceful crowd turns into chaos has been started with police shooting pepperspray, teargas, or whatever into the…

It's actually worse than that. Even in the killing of Floyd the Police claimed he resisted arrest, which was a lie[0], the coroner said it wasn't asphyxia that killed him (despite all the videos) and a private autopsy found that's not true[1]. They did all this amidst a huge public outcry, what do you think happens to some poor schmuck when no camera is around. Like this[2] and this[3]......... EDIT: Here is one wher…

In the video I watched (the one with multiple viewpoints from security cams, dash cams, etc.), Floyd did resist when they attempted to take him out of his car, and then again when they tried to put him in their car the first time. Of course, none of that should have resulted in a death sentence.

Re: Police attacks against journalists across the U.S. since May 28

#755

Post by aspenmayer » Wed, Jun 03, 2020, 2:17 PM UTC

jariel wrote: post #576

aspenmayer wrote: post #528

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In any given group, you can’t know with certainty whether past or future looters are present; looting is an action and not a quality. It is subjective. Is removing anti-riot barricades ‘looting’ if protesters remove them from the street and out of the control of authorities in order to exercise their right to protest? Branding someone a rioter empowers the utterer and subjugates the one deemed rioting in your framing…

>>>>>>>>>> "looting is an action and not a quality." - no, it's absolutely a crime, and a 'quality' of an individual to the extent that we definitely consider it very immoral, and we have laws against it. It's not 'protesting' in any sense of the term. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Branding someone a rioter empowers the utterer and subjugates the one deemed rioting in your framing" - a 'riot' is not a 'framing' - it's for the mos…

By defenders, I mean those not associated with law enforcement, who defended people or property from harm or damage during protests. You seem to really believe in capital T truth as something that can be known by you and by others including police in a large protest, or riot, or looting, or all of the above. I don’t share this belief in Truth being knowable in the field. That’s why police don’t have unlimited latitude to identify criminals and respond to suspected criminal acts in the field. They must act within policing standards set by the community in stated and unstated ways. Otherwise, they may not have a job if the service they provide is made redundant through community involvement in legislatively changing police mandates, authority, and priorities.

But more to my point, police are not judges, lawyers, or most important, juries. They don’t decide what is just. They just deliver those suspected of lawbreaking to the judicial system, which determines guilt or innocence under the law. As far as the legal system is concerned, everyone has presumption of innocence. The way you are characterizing people as looters or rioters is to say that what they are doing is unlawful, but that’s just like your opinion, man. One person’s rioter is another person’s edgy protesting neighbor. It’s for the courts to decide which behavior is law-abiding. If they aren’t convicted, they were not found to be in violation of the law, yet. It’s strange for you to presume they would found guilty just because you disagree with their actions. Sounds authoritarian to me and not in step with our justice system or the times.

Re: Police attacks against journalists across the U.S. since May 28

#756

Post by selimthegrim » Wed, Jun 03, 2020, 2:28 PM UTC

oblio wrote: post #728

selimthegrim wrote: post #513

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Seattle PD tried this during the 2001 Mardi Gras riots. It earned the police chief (Kerlikowske) a higher level position

So they didn't try, they succeeded.

Kerlikowske stood them down and it was controversial.

Re: Police attacks against journalists across the U.S. since May 28

#757

Post by klyrs » Wed, Jun 03, 2020, 2:32 PM UTC

lostmsu wrote: post #406

klyrs wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's two examples, literally the first two hits of an obvious search. Officials are acknowledging that these are wrongful arrests, why can't you? There's 110 cases mentioned in this article. Instead of demanding that we spoon-feed you evidence, please continue looking into the evidence. Because there's tons of it and you know how to find it. > The first one is concerning, but the incident appears to be resolved now…

> Sure. Call it resolved. That does not mean that it didn't happen the way that it's being described. I am not arguing if the events are misstated. I will continue calling it resolved, as crew took the apology and does not seem to want anything else. So why bring it up again? > This is a really weird point to get hung up on, given that the title of the original article is "U.S. police have attacked journalists more t…

https://www.voanews.com/press-freedom/police-shove-make-ap-j...

Re: Police attacks against journalists across the U.S. since May 28

#758

Post by logfromblammo » Wed, Jun 03, 2020, 2:40 PM UTC

freeone3000 wrote: post #692

logfromblammo wrote: post #400

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The expectation of the public is that police should prioritize deterrence and investigation of property crimes above assembling a massive show of force to deprive peaceful protesters of their 1st amendment rights to free speech, to peaceably assemble, and to petition government for redress of their grievances. Cops that are busy kettling up protesters for later official intimidation and violence are not available to…

Right, but then why have the police at all?

Is that a rhetorical question?

There is no reason to have police that don't follow the Peelian principles.

Re: Police attacks against journalists across the U.S. since May 28

#759

Post by rumanator » Wed, Jun 03, 2020, 2:51 PM UTC

kortilla wrote: post #672

rumanator wrote: post #537

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Stopping traffic risks the lives of people in ambulances so it’s pretty hard to condone that. Social media is clogged with live footage from the protests. Can you find a single video of an ambulance being stopped by protests? The irony of your comment is that the likelihood of an ambulance being close to a protest is linked to the extreme violence that the police is using to attack and repress protests against poli…

> Can you find a single video of an ambulance being stopped by protests? Why would anyone make a video of stopped traffic?

> Why would anyone make a video of stopped traffic?

Because people like you are hell bent on smearing the protests, resorting even to come up with made-up accusations like ambulances stuck in traffic, and any evidence would provide some support to those claims.

But apparently even that is hard to come by. So here we are, stuck with fabrications and imaginary "what if" scenarios.

Re: Police attacks against journalists across the U.S. since May 28

#760

Post by jascii » Wed, Jun 03, 2020, 3:00 PM UTC

jcims wrote: post #742

megous wrote: post #703

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We'd still have communism here if people were so obedient and concerned about blocking traffic that millions would not go into the streets for protests in 1989.

Look people can build killdozers and flatten police buildings for all i care. The point is that blocking traffic is an escalation that could literally cost lives, either by denying travel in an emergency or by putting cars and human bodies in conflict.

We should really have laws against commuting, commuters block traffic way more frequently than protests do..

Work is an escalation that could literally cost lives..