Police attacks against journalists across the U.S. since May 28 • Hacker News Board

Re: Police attacks against journalists across the U.S. since May 28

#641

Post by bigiain » Wed, Jun 03, 2020, 4:00 AM UTC

jascii wrote: post #386

monoideism wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That looks very suspicious, but if this were really a widespread technique by the police, I'm assuming there would be more than a single video taken. I mean, we know the black bloc and similar groups engages in these tactics, they've been doing it since Seattle WTO 1999. I've seen it in person to protests I've been to (as a protester). It's very hard for me to believe that all of a sudden those people are no longer a…

"Agent Provocateurs" are an old and well documented technique with examples varying from history through the civil rights era to the current day protests.

https://eurweb.com/2020/05/29/jacob-pederson-minneapolis-pol...

Hard to evaluate the accuracy of that story.

But it's also hard to dismiss it out of hand, given known true police behaviour. A very common view from the public is that cops are totally capable of that kind of behaviour. And whether the story about the cop setting the first fire is true our not, the believability of the story is as much a problem as the possible truth of the story.

Re: Police attacks against journalists across the U.S. since May 28

#642

Post by bigiain » Wed, Jun 03, 2020, 4:02 AM UTC

monoideism wrote: post #621

RangerScience wrote: post #361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> we know the black bloc and similar groups engages in these tactics How do you know this? What's the process by which you established this as a known thing?

> What's the process by which you established this as a known thing? Primary, by power of observation. But OK, I'll make this as vague and 100% foolproof as I can, to start: there are people who dress in black, and masks, and destroy stuff and commit violence at protests. That's from actual observation. It's not just 1-2, there are groups of them. That's my personal observation from being at 2 protests with such grou…

People who dress in black and destroy stuff like this guy?

https://eurweb.com/2020/05/29/jacob-pederson-minneapolis-pol...

Yeah, I smell a pattern too...

Re: Police attacks against journalists across the U.S. since May 28

#643

Post by novia » Wed, Jun 03, 2020, 4:03 AM UTC

Here's a repo to collect videos of police brutality during the protests.

https://github.com/2020PB/police-brutality

Re: Police attacks against journalists across the U.S. since May 28

#644

Post by bigiain » Wed, Jun 03, 2020, 4:05 AM UTC

TeaDrunk wrote: post #373

DiffEq wrote: post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Civil War? More blacks are killed by blacks - far more than blacks are killed by police. That is the real civil war. When are black leaders going to address that?

Black leadership has been bombed, assassinated, and jailed. Their neighborhoods are targeted for predatory financial extraction and are disproportionately exposed to environmental hazards like waste processing plants, dumps, etc. The Black Panther party had significant leadership and unification, social programs like food, educational programs, etc. They were killed. Bombed in fact. Prominent leaders were shot in the…

Maybe they could try respectfully taking a knee at football games? Surely that'd work? /s

Re: Police attacks against journalists across the U.S. since May 28

#645

Post by jtbayly » Wed, Jun 03, 2020, 4:18 AM UTC

chipotle_coyote wrote: post #577

benmw333 wrote: post #517

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm gunna go ahead and assume it was due to the the lack of violence and looting.

I'm gunna go ahead and assume it was due to them being conservative white guys with guns.

Turns out guns are important for protecting yourself against government overreach and abuse. Who knew?

Re: Police attacks against journalists across the U.S. since May 28

#646

Post by yyyk » Wed, Jun 03, 2020, 4:26 AM UTC

zouhair wrote: post #163

jascii wrote: post #133

Disclaimer: I am a bleeding heart liberal and this may filter my observations. I have been to a few rallies/vigils/marches lately and all incidences of violence that I have witnessed either in person or through media has been instigated by the police. As far as I know,every documented case where a formerly peaceful crowd turns into chaos has been started with police shooting pepperspray, teargas, or whatever into the…

It's actually worse than that. Even in the killing of Floyd the Police claimed he resisted arrest, which was a lie[0], the coroner said it wasn't asphyxia that killed him (despite all the videos) and a private autopsy found that's not true[1]. They did all this amidst a huge public outcry, what do you think happens to some poor schmuck when no camera is around. Like this[2] and this[3]......... EDIT: Here is one wher…

"the coroner said it wasn't asphyxia that killed him (despite all the videos) and a private autopsy found that's not true[1]."

The county coroner's report was technically true in a way meant to imply a false result.

Floyd didn't die from lack of airflow, he died because the knee stopped blood flow to the brain, that is the brain couldn't receive Oxygen despite the body being able to breath.

The county coroner carefully checked that Floyd could breathe, but not blood flow to the brain. Once asphyxia was ruled out (not really, since strangulation is not the only way to get it), the coroner was free to imply whatever was comfortable to the police.

I wonder how many other autopsies done by the same coroner were also misleading, and whether other cases will need a retrial.

Re: Police attacks against journalists across the U.S. since May 28

#647

Post by devin » Wed, Jun 03, 2020, 4:28 AM UTC

jariel wrote: post #576

aspenmayer wrote: post #528

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In any given group, you can’t know with certainty whether past or future looters are present; looting is an action and not a quality. It is subjective. Is removing anti-riot barricades ‘looting’ if protesters remove them from the street and out of the control of authorities in order to exercise their right to protest? Branding someone a rioter empowers the utterer and subjugates the one deemed rioting in your framing…

>>>>>>>>>> "looting is an action and not a quality." - no, it's absolutely a crime, and a 'quality' of an individual to the extent that we definitely consider it very immoral, and we have laws against it. It's not 'protesting' in any sense of the term. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Branding someone a rioter empowers the utterer and subjugates the one deemed rioting in your framing" - a 'riot' is not a 'framing' - it's for the mos…

Hmm, I'm sorry, but we have to talk.

1. Rubber bullets kill when they are used in the exact opposite way they were intended. They are not meant to be fired at people's heads. If used, they should be fired at the legs to incapacitate. This is covered in training. I very much doubt it's an accident that they wind up hitting someone in the temple.

2. I did not explicitly authorize escalation between my city police and protestors. If you want to know what works when it comes to preventing riots and looting, read: https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/de-escalation-keeps-pro... I watched in my city as protestors were turned into rioters because the police reaction to the middle finger and some naughty language was riot gear and tear gas.

3. You're very confused. You explicitly say we should not confuse protestors with rioters, and then go on to say that rioting and looting is being done by people "within the protest movement". You can't have it both ways. What you don't seem to understand is that it can simultaneously be the case that there are people who are committing "crimes" to have their voices heard, and people who are committing crimes because it's an opportune time to commit them. What you fail to recognize, is that we may disagree about what a crime even is societally. And to wit, that is exactly what we're disagreeing about right now. By strict legal definition, looting is a crime. However, the motivation for the crime colors it. If someone was starving and stole a loaf of bread it would be a crime, but the motivations for that crime color it. I would not, for instance, tear gas a starving person for stealing a loaf of bread.

-- In the end, your version of "clear-eyed" is code for "whatever I deem to be the valid laws of this society", not necessarily what is truly just.

Re: Police attacks against journalists across the U.S. since May 28

#648

Post by jariel » Wed, Jun 03, 2020, 4:39 AM UTC

ABeeSea wrote: post #519

jariel wrote: post #496

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First, this evidence there was 'no resistance' is not evidence at all, in fact, the claim by CNN is 'the lie'. There are many minutes of the interaction we don't have insight into, in particular the moments leading up to the 'kneeling'. That doesn't mean the police are not lying, but it definitely means the 'proof' offered by CNN is not 'proof'. Also, city coroner made one claim, the coroner hired by the family made…

The county coroner changed their report and labeled the death a homicide after the outcry that the original report was a cover-up. They no longer have any credibility. https://www.npr.org/2020/06/01/867219130/george-floyd-indepe... > In charging documents released last week, prosecutors said that preliminary results from an autopsy "revealed no physical findings that support a diagnosis of traumatic asphyxia or stran…

If this is true, it's all very terrible, it makes me dubious of the entire situation and I would hope that there would be an external (Federal? Non-Barr appointed?) investigation.

Re: Police attacks against journalists across the U.S. since May 28

#649

Post by logicchains » Wed, Jun 03, 2020, 4:47 AM UTC

jascii wrote: post #133

Disclaimer: I am a bleeding heart liberal and this may filter my observations. I have been to a few rallies/vigils/marches lately and all incidences of violence that I have witnessed either in person or through media has been instigated by the police. As far as I know,every documented case where a formerly peaceful crowd turns into chaos has been started with police shooting pepperspray, teargas, or whatever into the…

>As far as I know,every documented case where a formerly peaceful crowd turns into chaos has been started with police shooting pepperspray, teargas, or whatever into the crowd.

Question to Americans: if the police really are acting this badly, why aren't y'all exercising your second amendment rights to defend yourselves? My naive understanding as a foreigner is that it's exactly what the second amendment is supposed to be for: protecting yourselves from an oppressive government. If the current situation doesn't warrant it, what situation would?

Re: Police attacks against journalists across the U.S. since May 28

#650

Post by JamesBarney » Wed, Jun 03, 2020, 4:59 AM UTC

dbsmith83 wrote: post #639

jascii wrote: post #380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have never in my life seen an ambulance be stopped by a protest, nor have ever heard of such an incident ever occuring.

There are a lot of people out there who have important things that have to do with their health. Just because someone is not in an ambulance doesn't mean they don't have somewhere important to be. Not everyone with a medical condition rides in an ambulance.

But the vast majority of medical conditions where routing around a protest or road closure would cause serious harm to an individual are probably in ambulances.