Police attacks against journalists across the U.S. since May 28 • Hacker News Board

Re: Police attacks against journalists across the U.S. since May 28

#741

Post by grupthink » Wed, Jun 03, 2020, 11:41 AM UTC

vagrantJin wrote: post #733

grupthink wrote: post #705

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good point about context. Are these looters stealing bread for survival? I see them looting jewelers and high end retailers, like Gucci then torching the place. What is the motive? If you believe these looters are doing so for justice, then know that the people who killed Floyd will be tried for their crimes and that you can not cast all law enforcement officers with the same stone. The people that pinned down Floyd…

> ...isn’t that like condemning all blacks when one commits murder? I believe that's the case already, Ergo, racism. If peaceful placards and singing kumbaya really did work effectively , for black people in particular all over the world, we'd have a very different discussion. Police brutality is an extension of the governments very existence - "legitimate" violence - which is turned up to war-time levels when minori…

Singing Kumbaya would fix nothing, just like looting fixes nothing - don’t strawman me. I’ve yet to see any justification for the theft and vandalism. If you believe police brutality is a systemic problem in the government, might I suggest you fix the problem in that arena instead of on the streets? If you feel compelled to protest, maybe do it in a manner that actually communicates your demands. The person who killed Floyd will be dealt with in court, and Qualified Immunity is being repealed. What are you insisting that we protest?

Re: Police attacks against journalists across the U.S. since May 28

#742

Post by jcims » Wed, Jun 03, 2020, 12:24 PM UTC

megous wrote: post #703

jcims wrote: post #659

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So just roll the dice that you’re not going to hurt anyone by blocking traffic? Who’s responsible if something does go wrong? That’s going to really help the cause.

We'd still have communism here if people were so obedient and concerned about blocking traffic that millions would not go into the streets for protests in 1989.

Look people can build killdozers and flatten police buildings for all i care. The point is that blocking traffic is an escalation that could literally cost lives, either by denying travel in an emergency or by putting cars and human bodies in conflict.

Re: Police attacks against journalists across the U.S. since May 28

#743

Post by acdha » Wed, Jun 03, 2020, 12:26 PM UTC

salawat wrote: post #628

acdha wrote: post #594

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sounds better on a bumper sticker than when you think about it even slightly longer. The police have tons of guns, armored vehicles, and the backing of the largest military in the world. If you threaten them, do you really think they’re going to back down instead of getting bigger guns?

The big bad military isn't going to end up doing squat, because the moment they are employed, odds are unless there are a hell of a lot more people out there perfectly fine with watching what are largely peaceful protests get steamrolled. Furthermore, it'll be a tacit admission that the State's legitimacy is significantly compromised. Many in the military are, contrary to popular belief, quite patriotic, and very con…

My view may be colored by living in occupied DC, where there are a lot of armored vehicles and heavily armed federal security forces, some of whom appear to be quite comfortable amping up the violence levels. Given their past actions, black people with guns would be a time-honored excuse to say they felt threatened.

I have a number of coworkers who are veterans and while they’re generally confident that the military would refuse to follow general orders to attack civilians, nobody wants to test what might happen in confusion if they’re deployed to backup the police. All you need is one mistake and a lot of people can get hurt before the confusion clears.

Re: Police attacks against journalists across the U.S. since May 28

#744

Post by fooster » Wed, Jun 03, 2020, 12:50 PM UTC

leetcrew wrote: post #609

fooster wrote: post #599

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Learn your history better. http://revisionisthistory.com/episodes/33-tempest-in-a-teacu...

can you summarize? I'm not willing to listen to a 40 minute podcast to figure out what you're alluding to in your single sentence comment.

You can read the full transcript https://public.simonsays.ai/AXqKjRV1Kken/revisionist-history....

But this paragraph summarizes things pretty well:

"Let me spell it out for you: underneath the lofty rhetoric of the patriots of New England was a criminal enterprise. A vast smuggling operation, illicitly supplying the residents of the New World with their drug of choice, bohea, that deliciously addictive tea varietal with a dark liquor and a deep, leathery taste. The foundational myth of the American Republic is not righteous, freedom-loving citizens rising up against oppression. No, it's drug dealers defending their turf."

Re: Police attacks against journalists across the U.S. since May 28

#745

Post by CptFribble » Wed, Jun 03, 2020, 12:55 PM UTC

grupthink wrote: post #739

CptFribble wrote: post #727

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Martin Luther King Jr. on riots, September 1967 "Urban riots must now be recognized as durable social phenomena. They may be deplored, but they are there and should be understood. Urban riots are a special form of violence. They are not insurrections. The rioters are not seeking to seize territory or to attain control of institutions. They are mainly intended to shock the white community. They are a distorted form of…

Thanks for sharing that quote. It helps me understand your view a little bit more. Of course it’s well known that blacks experience a disproportionally higher degree of discrimination, but can we stop shifting blame for looting and vandalism over to another entity? Even if you want to blame the government, you would be hard pressed to find a law that oppresses anyone by race. Racist laws? No. Classicist laws? Yes.

It's not about shifting blame, it's about understanding that complaining about looting is missing the forest for the trees.

Protests and looting are a symptom of much deeper ills.

Also,

> you would be hard pressed to find a law that oppresses anyone by race. Racist laws? No. Classicist laws? Yes.

With all due respect, this position exposes a lack of understanding of US history, and I'm not just talking about slavery or the civil rights act.

Some things to Google if you want to open that Pandora's jar:

- Redlining

- Poll taxes

- Nixon starting "War on Drugs" to target black communities

- Federal exclusion of black families from New Deal homebuying programs

Many of the laws and policies that have targeted black people specifically are also classist through a certain lens, but when you look closer it's usually targeting poor people because poor Americans are disproportionately black.

Re: Police attacks against journalists across the U.S. since May 28

#746

Post by CathedralBorrow » Wed, Jun 03, 2020, 12:59 PM UTC

jcims wrote: post #659

JamesBarney wrote: post #650

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the vast majority of medical conditions where routing around a protest or road closure would cause serious harm to an individual are probably in ambulances.

So just roll the dice that you’re not going to hurt anyone by blocking traffic? Who’s responsible if something does go wrong? That’s going to really help the cause.

So to help your cause, make sure to never block traffic. Is that a fair understanding of your position?

Re: Police attacks against journalists across the U.S. since May 28

#747

Post by vagrantJin » Wed, Jun 03, 2020, 1:10 PM UTC

salawat wrote: post #628

acdha wrote: post #594

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sounds better on a bumper sticker than when you think about it even slightly longer. The police have tons of guns, armored vehicles, and the backing of the largest military in the world. If you threaten them, do you really think they’re going to back down instead of getting bigger guns?

The big bad military isn't going to end up doing squat, because the moment they are employed, odds are unless there are a hell of a lot more people out there perfectly fine with watching what are largely peaceful protests get steamrolled. Furthermore, it'll be a tacit admission that the State's legitimacy is significantly compromised. Many in the military are, contrary to popular belief, quite patriotic, and very con…

Well said internet stranger. I'm not American so I may miss some vital context but it really seems this protest has, at least execution, some parallels with the French yellow Vest Protest. The content of the protests could not be further apart but your observation, in the sense that this American protest is the resultant course of a long smoldering grievance, is apt. The situation is not helped by the American president being so cavalier about abusing the powers of the state. A dictator is like an angel compared to a democratically elected despot. Reminds me of a certain Indira and her son.

In some democratic countries and my own, the military is a respected, even hallowed institution. We never hear anything about them except the rare event some lose their lives in some UN mission or they have the rare parade in memorial events. No politician in his right mind would even utter, in the slightest, the deployment of the military for internal strife. Not even as a joke. So we trust our democracy as valid, imperfect, but in the best interests of the people.

But in the end, the American issue does strike one as strange. A people who believe themselves - self-proclaimed leaders of the free world - must surely ponder why they are at a junction such as this. The solution is simple as all hell and yet, here we are.

Re: Police attacks against journalists across the U.S. since May 28

#748

Post by oblio » Wed, Jun 03, 2020, 1:17 PM UTC

logicchains wrote: post #649

jascii wrote: post #133

Disclaimer: I am a bleeding heart liberal and this may filter my observations. I have been to a few rallies/vigils/marches lately and all incidences of violence that I have witnessed either in person or through media has been instigated by the police. As far as I know,every documented case where a formerly peaceful crowd turns into chaos has been started with police shooting pepperspray, teargas, or whatever into the…

>As far as I know,every documented case where a formerly peaceful crowd turns into chaos has been started with police shooting pepperspray, teargas, or whatever into the crowd. Question to Americans: if the police really are acting this badly, why aren't y'all exercising your second amendment rights to defend yourselves? My naive understanding as a foreigner is that it's exactly what the second amendment is supposed…

As a non-American, I'm thinking the exact same thing. The whole system is completely broken.

Re: Police attacks against journalists across the U.S. since May 28

#749

Post by jcims » Wed, Jun 03, 2020, 1:23 PM UTC

CathedralBorrow wrote: post #746

jcims wrote: post #659

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So just roll the dice that you’re not going to hurt anyone by blocking traffic? Who’s responsible if something does go wrong? That’s going to really help the cause.

So to help your cause, make sure to never block traffic. Is that a fair understanding of your position?

No.

It's that blocking traffic is a material, aggressive escalation of a protest that could have very negative ramifications to the cause. Not only does it really really piss people off, it puts human bodies in direct conflict with vehicles and could potentially block travel to someone that needs urgent medical attention.

If that's your jam then go for it. For my part, if i am in a vehicle with family and we are in a traffic jam due to a protest, i'm going to be in an agitated state...not because of the delay but because of the inability to escape. I'll wait it out, but if people start attacking my car and breaking windows, i'm hitting the gas till i see daylight. That innate sense of how i would respond and is why i think people should approach blocking traffic with caution.

Re: Police attacks against journalists across the U.S. since May 28

#750

Post by 99_00 » Wed, Jun 03, 2020, 1:27 PM UTC

bobbean wrote: post #501

99_00 wrote: post #415

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Were they lawfully ordered to clear the area before using force? If the lawful order was give, was it because criminals were using the peaceful protest as cover?

Who decides when to enforce that law? Who decides if something is lawful or not?

The police.