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Scientists believed Covid leaked from Wuhan lab, but feared debate could hurt

telegraph.co.uk

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Re: Scientists believed Covid leaked from Wuhan lab, but feared debate could hurt

#71

Post by DarknessFalls »

jeremyjh wrote: post #59
DarknessFalls wrote: post #33

Can someone explain why the furin cleavage site is unusual from a natural evolutionary view?

If a feature would make the virus very unsuccessful in bats, then how did it propagate? There had to be another cross-over species or something but no one has any data to suggest what that is. China has apparently made it impossible to do the work of piecing that together, so the lab leak hypothesis may never be put to bed. Maybe the party leadership believes a lab leak is likely even if they have no specific knowled…

To add to my original question, is the furin cleavage site further adapted in the Omicron variant, explaining its increased infectiousness? If so, what is the difference between that and the Delta variant?

Re: Scientists believed Covid leaked from Wuhan lab, but feared debate could hurt

#73

Post by awb »

whatshisface wrote: post #70
awb wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The entire foundation of science is based upon empirical observation and asking hypothetical questions True, but it’s possible to ask questions that sway public opinion. Look at all the “studies” tobacco companies paid for. Or the racist scientific theories that attempted to justify slavery. If you’re asking questions about a lab leak out of genuine scientific interest, that’s perfectly legitimate. But if you’re as…

Your examples don't match the point you were making. The bent studies from tobacco companies were falsifying answers, not just asking questions, and the racist theories were operating on a hazy pseudoscientific level that can't even be called "falsification," but were also, by another means, giving false answers. There may have been a time in history when asking questions alone has been used maliciously, but it's nei…

They’re the end result of asking biased questions then manipulating answers to fit those biased questions. My point is that if you ask biased questions it won’t be long until someone provides biased answers.

You need to ask unbiased questions to get unbiased answers.

Re: Scientists believed Covid leaked from Wuhan lab, but feared debate could hurt

#74

Post by 99_00 »

Trust the science and experts, huh? What a joke.

A genocidal totalitarian regime that harvests organs from non-violent political prisoners may be responsible for the worst accident in human history and the people we count on for the unbiased truth are covering it up.

I wonder what they'd do for more funding.

Being called anti-science is starting to look like a compliment.

And their's more:

>Chan said there had been trepidation among some scientists about publicly discussing the lab leak hypothesis for fear that their words could be misconstrued or used to support racist rhetoric about how the coronavirus emerged.

https://www.nbcnews.com/science/science-news/lab-leak-theory...

Re: Scientists believed Covid leaked from Wuhan lab, but feared debate could hurt

#75

Post by tootie »

djkivi wrote: post #21

Quoted post unavailable.

That article has a correction front and center. The mistake at the time was conflating lab leak theory with engineered weapon theory. Lab leak has never been disproven but the media rightly said it's unlikely despite lots of assertions to the contrary.

Re: Scientists believed Covid leaked from Wuhan lab, but feared debate could hurt

#76

Post by systemvoltage »

JamisonM wrote: post #42
systemvoltage wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article shouldn’t have quote this person in the first place - there are plenty of serious investigations into the lab leak theory from reputable virologists. I recommend Alina Chan’s new book: Viral. This clarification also masquerades as a clarification of something important. This person quoted by the tabloid is irrelevant here. In fact this article does more damage to the credibility of lab theory than otherwi…

IDK, seemed like it was pretty important to clarify that a quote was used very deceptively! Seems important to point out that Chan's co-author is a climate-change sceptic that is a hereditary peer in the British House of Lords after chairing the bank Northern Rock - famous for failing spectacularly in 2007. Very credible!

I think there is some sort of a misunderstanding.

I am saying that the source of a person who is not a virologist, has never worked in a lab environment and the general credibility of a tabloid (Telegraph.co.uk) does not give a good impression of the lab leak theory. I am trying to steering people away from the article.

Re: Scientists believed Covid leaked from Wuhan lab, but feared debate could hurt

#77

Post by tootie »

99_00 wrote: post #74

Trust the science and experts, huh? What a joke. A genocidal totalitarian regime that harvests organs from non-violent political prisoners may be responsible for the worst accident in human history and the people we count on for the unbiased truth are covering it up. I wonder what they'd do for more funding. Being called anti-science is starting to look like a compliment. And their's more: >Chan said there had been t…

Ironic because Chan has been a media crusade about it. Every news org seems willing to give her air time even though she's turned up zilch. Now chiming that the media is suppressing is the cry of someone who has staked their career on an argument they can't win it's merits. If she (or anyone) had some viable proof then it would be guaranteed to be splashed on every front page.

Re: Scientists believed Covid leaked from Wuhan lab, but feared debate could hurt

#78

Post by labster »

albinofrenchy wrote: post #47
systemvoltage wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. The only way to disprove lab leak theory is for the CCP to disclose the WIV databases and records of what they were studying. Otherwise, just because it was found in some animal doesn’t quite disprove it. WIV was actively collecting virus samples from mammals for research funded by the US tax payer money through Eco Health Alliance.

If you are inclined to think the CCP knows / is covering up a lab leak; you are also inclined to think that they'd release fake disclosure data to cover it up.

Faking data is much harder: it’s easy to forget to remove something, change numbers so they don’t match other numbers, or make up numbers which have the statistical signal of manufactured data. Even being a great power does not prevent these kind of mistakes, because of the skill level censors would need in multiple scientific fields to make a good forgery. People get away with it in minor papers in the social sciences all the time, but with a million eyes on the data sets in this case, someone’s gonna see it.

Re: Scientists believed Covid leaked from Wuhan lab, but feared debate could hurt

#79

Post by TrispusAttucks »

So much data drops and narrative shifts taking place re:covid data. Allegedly those [1] project defuse documents submitted to darpa we're legit. How they gonna wiggle out of that if so? Brace for house of cards collapse.

[1] https://www.projectveritas.com/news/military-documents-about...

Re: Scientists believed Covid leaked from Wuhan lab, but feared debate could hurt

#80

Post by dane-pgp »

Reason077 wrote: post #40
nradov wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's also possible that the Chinese authorities themselves don't even know exactly what happened. Despite their authoritarian surveillance state they aren't omniscient.

It's easy to make sure you don't know what you don't want to know if you don't go looking for it.

To give a recent Western example, here is a story in two acts:

"An Intelligence Report Will Say UK Spy Agencies Found No Evidence Of Russian State Interference In The Outcome Of The Brexit Referendum"[0]

"Boris Johnson refuses Russia report's demand to probe 'meddling' in Brexit vote"[1]

[0] https://www.buzzfeed.com/albertonardelli/intelligence-report...

[1] https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/breaking-boris-johnso...

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