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I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

jeffgeerling.com

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Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#651

Post by fransje26 »

boringg wrote: post #548
fransje26 wrote: post #429

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but that's the $400-more-expensive model they mention in the article, with the 7 segment display. Which is a model at least 40% more expensive than the 500 series they bought.

Yup you are correct. I agree with article thats BS to gate keep functionality through cloud access requirements and boy am I happy that I bought the 800 series. That said I don't like contributing to the business model of paying for privacy - seems broken.

> That said I don't like contributing to the business model of paying for privacy - seems broken.

I fully agree.

But to be fair, in a other comment someone linked to a website [0] explaining that the app could be used without connection to internet. So in this case perhaps Bosch didn't have as much of a malicious intent as originally thought.

Quote from the link:

  However, [..], the BSH "HomeConnect" appliances have a no-cloud mode built into their app without any hacks required to disconnect them from the internet. They do require a one-time connection to perform key exchange of a long-live authorization key, but from then on the appliances can be operated entirely disconnected from the network.
[0] https://trmm.net/homeconnect/#no-cloud-mode

Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#652

Post by cromka »

publicmail wrote: post #490
publicmail wrote: post #488

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My favorite is my Bosh wall oven that uses 85C rated capacitors with practically no voltage derating for the control board that sits directly at the top of the oven. After 4 years, they gave out causing the display to dim to the point of invisibility. We’re talking about 50 cents of part savings on a $3000+ appliance here. Replaced them myself easily, but most people will end up having to call for service and end up…

Actually no - I forgot about my Bosch dishwasher that uses capacitive touch buttons. Great idea for something that is often touched with wet fingers…

Arguably speaking, physical buttons and wet fingers seem to be a way worse combination.

Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#653

Post by cromka »

I am seriously surprised he chose this expensive model over the IKEA model costing less than $300, which the Consumer Report ranked not much worse than this expensive Bosch in their report, the latter of which he references in his video.

Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#654

Post by dagw »

jajko wrote: post #527
jbm wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Literally have a Bosch dishwasher that has none of this Wifi garbage. It is amazing and super low sound compared to the 10 year old one that self destructed and nearly wrecked my basement bedroom (and the electrical panel). Strongly recommended, would buy it again - as long as they don't have any insane IoT garbage included.

Yeah with most appliances its... not smart to go for highest of their ranges. Way too many functionalities crammed into 1 device just to justify much higher price. All want to be online to do what... pester you with notifications and updates? I love Bosch, all the stuff we have from them works perfectly many years after buying. Similar for Siemens. But for me - AEG, Whirlpool and Electrolux are the crappiest of the c…

Yeah with most appliances its... not smart to go for highest of their ranges.

Often the parts you actually care about are the same among most of the products in a range. When looking at Miele dishwashers recently they all had the same core dish washing mechanics, and all you got when moving to the highest end model was some superficial design changes, an app and that the door popped open once it was done.

Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#657

Post by phkahler »

DanielHB wrote: post #624
phkahler wrote: post #511

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes! I've been thinking about bluetooth and a standard protocol and generic app. You'd get basic gui functionality for any compliant device, showing whatever device specific stuff the manufacturer wants. Kinda of like a bluetooth X-terminal, but way way simpler. Think tkinter over bluetooth, probably sans canvas. A bunch of people will say to just use wifi, make the device a Hotspot, and use your web browser. That's…

If you afford a bluetooth chip you can definitely definitely afford a CPU that can push 2-5mb HTML files through it in reasonable time (you can pre-gzip it) and some flash storage (which you probably already need if you are any kind of metrics over time). It could be hard to encode JSON messages dynamically for the actual data to show in the web application, but you _can_ use other protocols from a browser too (CBOR…

>> If you afford a bluetooth chip you can definitely definitely afford a CPU that can push 2-5mb HTML files through it in reasonable time

Maybe not. I'm using a micro controller with specific peripherals and ADC requirements for a high speed control system. This has less RAM and flash that you can probably get away with for a web server. We'd have to add a bluetooth radio chip, but I hear those go for well under $1. There are all kinds of embedded devices that have few resources but could be expanded with cheap Bluetooth connectivity. I realize this is changing quickly, but there will always be very small devices.

Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#658

Post by usefulcat »

e40 wrote: post #544
dorfsmay wrote: post #131

Bosch! I ran into the same situation. I specifically told the salesperson I didn't want wifi, and they told me it's only if you want it to operate from your phone. I was done installing it and got rid of the packaging by the time I read that it needs to use their website for some functions. Beside the fact that I doubt the store would take it back after using it for a week or two and havi go no packaging, I had no ti…

Was all set to purchase a Bosch and the local shopsaid their quality has plummeted in recent years, recommend a Meile for the same price. Was told they get far fewer repair requests with this brand.

That's a shame, we've bought two Bosch dishwashers (two different houses). The second one is 12 years old and still working. Had to replace the pump once, although that problem was almost certainly caused by sediment in our water lines.

I like that they've been quiet and reliable, the reliability affirmed by the repair person that replaced the pump.

Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#659

Post by AnthonyMouse »

kube-system wrote: post #540
AnthonyMouse wrote: post #391

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't really consistent with the theft statistics, e.g. 68.6% of stolen phones are iPhones[1] (in the UK where they have ~44% market share). This is presumably because of higher resale value etc., but the premise that nobody cares to steal them anymore evidently hasn't panned out. [1] https://www.loveitcoverit.com/news/changing-world/mobile-pho...

That could be because in many situations (crimes of opportunity) thieves don’t have the luxury of time to evaluate the model of a phone before they steal it. Google needs to step their shit up.

That isn't really consistent with the statistics either: If that was happening then the theft rate should approximate the penetration, but it's still higher for iPhones, implying that the thieves actually prefer them.

That makes sense if they e.g. have a higher resale value, but only if they have a higher resale value and the thieves are choosing them on purpose as a result.

Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#660

Post by AnthonyMouse »

varjag wrote: post #413
AnthonyMouse wrote: post #391

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't really consistent with the theft statistics, e.g. 68.6% of stolen phones are iPhones[1] (in the UK where they have ~44% market share). This is presumably because of higher resale value etc., but the premise that nobody cares to steal them anymore evidently hasn't panned out. [1] https://www.loveitcoverit.com/news/changing-world/mobile-pho...

I'm sorry that the reality in a locker room of a Norwegian high school is not consistent with British statistics.

Why would being in a different country change the effectiveness of the same system? The relevance of the country is that the theft rate has to be compared with the installed base for that type of phone, which is something that does vary by country.
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