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I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

jeffgeerling.com

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Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#421

Post by gambiting »

onewheeltom wrote: post #207
theturtletalks wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I will never buy anything Bosch again after reading this thread. What other reason could Bosch have for hiding this functionality behind a website and user account if not to monetize it down the line or worse, bring more of the functionality behind a paywall. We already saw what happened with HP charging to print and even the recent Chromecast outage where something that should be handled locally is pinging back to G…

My relatively new Bosch dishwasher has real buttons and an LED display. No wifi required

Same, my mum got a new Bosch Series 4 last year and it doesn't have wifi at all. Everything is on the control panel.

Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#422

Post by poincaredisk »

dzhiurgis wrote: post #38

Some things - I don't see value (yet). But others like coffee machine, lights, solar, AC, ventilation, robot vacuum, car charger, hot water heater, speakers are so obviously better when connected.

Do you really mean "cloud connected"? Having an app for a coffee machine sounds good. Having to connect my coffee machine to my wifi, so it can stream my coffee drinking habits to shady retailers, and upsell me subscription to paid features (sorry, you didn't pay $2 this month to unlock late macchiato, would you like Americano instead?). After you create an account, of course.

Even worse if you literally can't use your coffee machine without connecting it to the cloud.

I feel similarly about the rest of the things you listed. But I don't mind having the option, as long as it's completely optional (because I don't want to use it). But because of how capitalism works, it is very hard for the MBAs in management to resist the urge to cloud-wall features.

Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#423

Post by tchalla »

btbuildem wrote: post #47

One thing I've learned when buying a full set of appliances couple of years ago: don't read consumer reports or reviews by randos on the internet -- instead, go to industry literature, and read reports by/for service and warranty providers. They have actual hard data on the types and frequency of problems across brands and models. But back to the main theme of the article: hell to the no was my initial attitude, and…

It would help if you’d have posted an example of reports for service and warranty.

Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#424

Post by gambiting »

madaxe_again wrote: post #384
amiga386 wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This reminds me of the EU regulations, which not only: 1. _require_ dishwashers to have an Eco mode, not locked behind anything, but also 2. _require_ Eco mode to be the default . If you buy a dishwasher in the EU and turn it on, and press "start", it'll be on Eco mode, the mode that uses the least water/power. If you don't care about the dishwasher other than to turn it on, and it works for you, then everybody wins.…

The weird thing about eco modes is that they often don’t use less water or power. I live off grid, and just as a function of my setup I know exactly what consumes what. My Bosch dishwasher, on a normal 70C dish cycle, uses about 4.5L of water and 1.6kWh. On eco mode, it uses 8L of water, and 1.8kWh. Takes twice as long though. Similar with my AEG washer - a 40 degree cotton wash uses marginally more water than a 40 d…

Just as an anecdote - that's not my experience, and I have a smart power plug to measure it too. On my Bosch Series 6 dishwasher, Eco Mode comes consistently in at 1.2kWh per cycle, while the intensive 70C cycle is around 1.6kWh. I have no way of measuring water usage though, but in terms of energy the ECO mode is really the most efficient.

Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#425

Post by poincaredisk »

65 wrote: post #206

This is very stereotypical Hacker News blog post. The only thing is, you know you can, like, buy a dishwasher that doesn't connect to Wifi? At this point some things are better with bluetooth/wifi. The laundry machine in my building connects via Bluetooth to an app and I can pay for my laundry using it. Do you realize how much better that is than having to go to the bank every few weeks (during work because of course…

>The laundry machine in my building connects via Bluetooth to an app and I can pay for my laundry using it.

Excuse my ignorance but do you... pay to do laundry in your own home? I must be misunderstanding something because it sounds like some dystopian late stage capitalism thing. If I actually understood you correctly, can't you get a dishwasher that doesn't require paying?

Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#426

Post by nextts »

nextts wrote: post #344
WuxiFingerHold wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't believe this. It's illegal in many countries. No way a large German (after Dieselgate they all are very cautious) company like Bosch would make such a stupid move. If they did they'd face countless lawsuits and a ban in many countries (first would be the USA).

Not saying it was intentional

Also see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYwD8uqxSw4

Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#427

Post by raverbashing »

nextts wrote: post #170
dorfsmay wrote: post #131

Bosch! I ran into the same situation. I specifically told the salesperson I didn't want wifi, and they told me it's only if you want it to operate from your phone. I was done installing it and got rid of the packaging by the time I read that it needs to use their website for some functions. Beside the fact that I doubt the store would take it back after using it for a week or two and havi go no packaging, I had no ti…

Bosch knows how to perfect asshole design. On some of their ovens there is a secret key sequence (like game cheat) to get the buttons working again. Every 6 months you need to do this otherwise pay for a service call to do this. Or have a defunct oven. But it is not public info they have released (but had been leaked on YT) So they have software with a bug and a workaround they won't tell you about. Ideally they shou…

Stupid question but have you tried turning it off and on for a while?

It might be something simpler

Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#428

Post by tsukikage »

nextts wrote: post #170
dorfsmay wrote: post #131

Bosch! I ran into the same situation. I specifically told the salesperson I didn't want wifi, and they told me it's only if you want it to operate from your phone. I was done installing it and got rid of the packaging by the time I read that it needs to use their website for some functions. Beside the fact that I doubt the store would take it back after using it for a week or two and havi go no packaging, I had no ti…

Bosch knows how to perfect asshole design. On some of their ovens there is a secret key sequence (like game cheat) to get the buttons working again. Every 6 months you need to do this otherwise pay for a service call to do this. Or have a defunct oven. But it is not public info they have released (but had been leaked on YT) So they have software with a bug and a workaround they won't tell you about. Ideally they shou…

> Bosch knows how to perfect asshole design.

This is actually pretty low on the asshole scale.

Consider: dishwashing-as-a-service subscription model. You get the dishwasher chemicals in the post - the dishwasher automatically requests the next lot when it feels like it - and there's cover for repairs; for this you can either pay a regular fee or make in-app purchases of WashCoin, which you then spend when you need to wash the dishes. Maybe add a gacha mode to the app to win bonus wash / rinse / self-clean cycles.

Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#429

Post by fransje26 »

boringg wrote: post #246
dorfsmay wrote: post #131

Bosch! I ran into the same situation. I specifically told the salesperson I didn't want wifi, and they told me it's only if you want it to operate from your phone. I was done installing it and got rid of the packaging by the time I read that it needs to use their website for some functions. Beside the fact that I doubt the store would take it back after using it for a week or two and havi go no packaging, I had no ti…

Totally different experience. Bosch dish washer 800 series - fantastic, clean and quiet. No need for wireless if i don’t want it and no blocked features. Have other appliances - well made, sturdy and made to last. I wont say it was the cheapest option but i typically pay for a balance of quality, value and privacy.

Yes, but that's the $400-more-expensive model they mention in the article, with the 7 segment display. Which is a model at least 40% more expensive than the 500 series they bought.

Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#430

Post by alt227 »

paradox460 wrote: post #81
btbuildem wrote: post #47

One thing I've learned when buying a full set of appliances couple of years ago: don't read consumer reports or reviews by randos on the internet -- instead, go to industry literature, and read reports by/for service and warranty providers. They have actual hard data on the types and frequency of problems across brands and models. But back to the main theme of the article: hell to the no was my initial attitude, and…

The best friend you can make is an appliance repair man. Ask him which brands are good and which bad, and you'll rarely be steered awry

I asked the local appliance repair man which was the best brand for kitchen appliance reliability and he said Bosch.
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