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I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

jeffgeerling.com

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Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#201

Post by leonidasv »

m463 wrote: post #62
btbuildem wrote: post #47

One thing I've learned when buying a full set of appliances couple of years ago: don't read consumer reports or reviews by randos on the internet -- instead, go to industry literature, and read reports by/for service and warranty providers. They have actual hard data on the types and frequency of problems across brands and models. But back to the main theme of the article: hell to the no was my initial attitude, and…

> Needless to say, none of these ever even got anywhere near being set up, I have an LG soundbar never set up, or connected to any wifi. and when my phone gets near it, it asks to connect to an airplay device. I think that might be a fatal flaw to even getting a wifi enabled device - maybe someone in the adjacent apartment can do the initial setup if you didn't. hopefully these devices have a physical component to in…

I live in an apartment. When I go to my living room, a pop-up shows on my phone (Samsung Galaxy) asking if I want to connect to a Samsung TV and cast my phone.

The catch is: I don't have any Samsung TV in my home. It's the neighbours TV. It happened even when my Bluetooth was disabled, somehow the phone still reached the TV wirelessly.

Thank God there's a setting to turn this "feature" off.

Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#202

Post by kube-system »

wkat4242 wrote: post #196
hansvm wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> pinging back to Google and then working I still have a bricked Android phone from nonsense like that. If you: 1. Factory reset the phone while not logged in to the last Google account on the phone 2. Have the Google account invalidated (e.g., using an identity verification app on a temp noogler account, ...) You'll never be able to access the phone again. The "factory reset" maintains some internal state despite a…

That's an anti theft feature. Intended to make the phone useless to a thief. It doesn't work very well, thieves manage to get around it somehow (not so much with Apple's version) so it ends up annoying the users more than it does deter thieves. Apple is really really difficult about getting these unlocked. The carriers can't do it, you have to show them proof of purchase and have an enterprise support contract. With…

It is a very good thing that Apple is tough about it, given the high value of the devices, and how people carry them around in public. I very much want my devices to be useless to thieves.

Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#203

Post by eclipticplane »

Spivak wrote: post #163
Jedd wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You were prepared to replace a functioning washing machine just to match a replacement clothes dryer?

If you have guest-facing laundry machines such as a the very trendy washroom/mudroom combo then matching machines is part of the aesthetic. People have spent more on less impactful decor improvements. I've spent more than the cost of a laundry machine on interior paint for my walls.

Nowhere in the "training you to be an adult" did anyone warn me the cost of paint, nor selection anxiety around finishes, styles, nor the hell that is selecting a color. What _is_ 'Steamed Milk' and why can't I decide between it, 'Casa Blanca', and 'Aged White', and why does it cause so many disagreements?

Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#204

Post by apricot »

I am so glad I saw this today! I am in the market for a new dishwasher and was about to buy a Bosch tomorrow on the strength of online reviews. Not anymore! And you bet I will be asking to read the user's manual before buying, to make sure the manufacturer isn't trying similar shenanigans.

Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#205

Post by sillysaurusx »

theturtletalks wrote: post #181
kube-system wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, misrepresentation is basic contract law stuff that would be generally valid in the US too, but: 1. there's probably no evidence of it 2. the workers at the store will deny it 3. the workers at the store likely have no grasp of contract law and will insist on whatever their store policy is 4. hiring a lawyer to return a dishwasher is a waste of time for most anyone knowledgable enough to know that this is a vali…

I will never buy anything Bosch again after reading this thread. What other reason could Bosch have for hiding this functionality behind a website and user account if not to monetize it down the line or worse, bring more of the functionality behind a paywall. We already saw what happened with HP charging to print and even the recent Chromecast outage where something that should be handled locally is pinging back to G…

I mean, is Bosch the bad guy here or the salesperson? It sounds like they either lied or were incompetent.

I guess maybe both are bad. Yesterday I tried to configure a friend’s wifi router after the speed was suspiciously slow. It forced me to ask them for their Spectrum login info (the same info they use to pay the bills, not the wifi info) which nobody remembered and I gave up. Apparently this is required according to https://www.reddit.com/r/Spectrum/s/3sLnHuWgEF

So if we’re badmouthing companies that lock physical functionality behind a cloud, add Spectrum. Not that you’ll have much choice if they’re the only provider, but still.

The more I think about it, the more I agree with you. What if you have someone house sitting? You really need to download the Bosch app to their phone just to use the same dishwashing routine that you usually do? Blah.

Any alternatives to Bosch that don’t do this?

Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#206

Post by 65 »

This is very stereotypical Hacker News blog post.

The only thing is, you know you can, like, buy a dishwasher that doesn't connect to Wifi?

At this point some things are better with bluetooth/wifi. The laundry machine in my building connects via Bluetooth to an app and I can pay for my laundry using it. Do you realize how much better that is than having to go to the bank every few weeks (during work because of course the bank hours are 10-4 these days), get a bunch of quarters, and use them to wash my clothing?

I guess the point is there's more nuance to the HN kneejerk reaction to "Internet of things bad" - some things are easier, some things are dumb marketing gimmicks that quickly die off. Ultimately the market sorts itself out. If people don't want to use an app for their dishwasher, manufacturers will stop making them. Remember 3D TVs?

Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#207

Post by onewheeltom »

theturtletalks wrote: post #181
kube-system wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, misrepresentation is basic contract law stuff that would be generally valid in the US too, but: 1. there's probably no evidence of it 2. the workers at the store will deny it 3. the workers at the store likely have no grasp of contract law and will insist on whatever their store policy is 4. hiring a lawyer to return a dishwasher is a waste of time for most anyone knowledgable enough to know that this is a vali…

I will never buy anything Bosch again after reading this thread. What other reason could Bosch have for hiding this functionality behind a website and user account if not to monetize it down the line or worse, bring more of the functionality behind a paywall. We already saw what happened with HP charging to print and even the recent Chromecast outage where something that should be handled locally is pinging back to G…

My relatively new Bosch dishwasher has real buttons and an LED display. No wifi required

Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#208

Post by nkurz »

Aurornis wrote: post #186
nkurz wrote: post #182

I recently bought and installed the same dishwasher. I also don't like the app requirement to access some features. But contrary to some of the other comments, I feel the need point out that it's still a fully functional dishwasher even if you never connect it to Wifi. You will miss out on a few "advanced" features, but it washes dishes really well. I read the manual before I bought it, and I got the performance I ex…

> But contrary to some of the other comments, I feel the need point out that it's still a fully functional dishwasher even if you never connect it to Wifi. Thanks. Some of the other comments are implying that they’re missing something important without WiFi but nobody seems to want to explain what’s missing. Can you explain what features are missing without the WiFi connection?

I think this manual page shows what's available with and without the app: https://www.manua.ls/bosch/shx65cm5n/manual?p=5

Available cycles from the buttons: Heavy, Auto, Normal, Speed 60, Favorite

Available options from the buttons: Auto Air, Sanitize

Additional cycles from the app: Rinse, Machine Care

Additional options from the app: Halfload, Eco, Delay

I believe that with the app you can set one of the additional cycles to be the "Favorite" button, but I haven't tried this.

Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#209

Post by amiga386 »

kube-system wrote: post #190
theturtletalks wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I will never buy anything Bosch again after reading this thread. What other reason could Bosch have for hiding this functionality behind a website and user account if not to monetize it down the line or worse, bring more of the functionality behind a paywall. We already saw what happened with HP charging to print and even the recent Chromecast outage where something that should be handled locally is pinging back to G…

I think this is annoying, but given that the basic functionality works, it personally wouldn't be a dealbreaker for me. I don't normally do anything fancy with the settings on my dishwasher, I just want it to wash the dishes. I'd rather have a dishwasher that puts delay and eco mode behind an app, than some shitty dishwasher that doesn't clean the dishes well on the "normal" setting.

This reminds me of the EU regulations, which not only:

1. _require_ dishwashers to have an Eco mode, not locked behind anything, but also

2. _require_ Eco mode to be the default. If you buy a dishwasher in the EU and turn it on, and press "start", it'll be on Eco mode, the mode that uses the least water/power.

If you don't care about the dishwasher other than to turn it on, and it works for you, then everybody wins. If it doesn't wash as much as you'd like, or takes longer thank you'd like, you can still have all the other dishwasher modes (express, intensive, etc.).

The whole point of the regulation is to make the default mode the most energy efficient. I find it absolutely crazy that a German company, when given free rein in the USA, would actually paywall Eco mode. It's just mind-boggling.

Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#210

Post by ensignavenger »

dorfsmay wrote: post #131

Bosch! I ran into the same situation. I specifically told the salesperson I didn't want wifi, and they told me it's only if you want it to operate from your phone. I was done installing it and got rid of the packaging by the time I read that it needs to use their website for some functions. Beside the fact that I doubt the store would take it back after using it for a week or two and havi go no packaging, I had no ti…

Sounds not so much like a Bosch problem as a retailer problem. It was the retailer that lied to you about the machine.
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