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I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

jeffgeerling.com

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Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#511

Post by phkahler »

DanielHB wrote: post #419
schobi wrote: post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't it be great if a universal standard existed for devices sending their diagnosis via audio? If there is a microcontroller and a beeper in there anyway, at only the extra cost of internal memory? Instead of a modem-type modulation and a speaker, make use of the bare minimum piezo beepers and send something that is universally understood? All of that without FCC, no extra hardware cost, no backchannel und thus…

An appliance could just have blutooth so it can connect to an app on your phone. With the machine not having a direct internet connection, the app can collect diagnostics, metrics and do software updates. Require you to press a button in the machine to pair it to your phone. 99% of the functionality with 0 annoyance and ~0 security/privacy risks.

Yes! I've been thinking about bluetooth and a standard protocol and generic app. You'd get basic gui functionality for any compliant device, showing whatever device specific stuff the manufacturer wants.

Kinda of like a bluetooth X-terminal, but way way simpler. Think tkinter over bluetooth, probably sans canvas.

A bunch of people will say to just use wifi, make the device a Hotspot, and use your web browser. That's not a bad idea, but tiny devices aren't going to run web servers dishing out multi megabits frameworks.

Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#513

Post by spicybright »

a_paddy wrote: post #496
kevincox wrote: post #483

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They do require a one-time connection to perform key exchange of a long-live authorization key What does my offline dishwasher need a long-lived authorization key for?

I assume only if you're setting it up to work "offline" with the app. Issuing a key pair to the hardware and the app from their ecosystem's trusted authority does seem like a secure way to do it.

Why can't the dishwasher or phone generate that key though?

Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#514

Post by uberman »

account42 wrote: post #498
darkwater wrote: post #354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The current generation went through a round of cost cutting and added WiFi bullshit to everything I'm no dishwasher expert and I guess they did their homework but over a period of 10 years, how can be cheaper to remove the local functionality, add a wifi chip, redo the manuals, and pay for the datacenter costs?

It's probably more that they add the online features because some users want them and then think if they already have that they can save some cents on buttons. Also I seriously doubt the hosting costs are more than a rounding error for a multiple-hundred-dollar appliance.

It's cheaper because in the end they sell your data.

Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#515

Post by theryan »

poincaredisk wrote: post #425
65 wrote: post #206

This is very stereotypical Hacker News blog post. The only thing is, you know you can, like, buy a dishwasher that doesn't connect to Wifi? At this point some things are better with bluetooth/wifi. The laundry machine in my building connects via Bluetooth to an app and I can pay for my laundry using it. Do you realize how much better that is than having to go to the bank every few weeks (during work because of course…

>The laundry machine in my building connects via Bluetooth to an app and I can pay for my laundry using it. Excuse my ignorance but do you... pay to do laundry in your own home? I must be misunderstanding something because it sounds like some dystopian late stage capitalism thing. If I actually understood you correctly, can't you get a dishwasher that doesn't require paying?

This is extremely common in apartment buildings with shared washers & dryers.

Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#516

Post by account42 »

amiga386 wrote: post #509
account42 wrote: post #478

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would a German company apply feel-good but ultimately counter-productive regulation to customers where they don't have to?

> counter-productive The opposite, actually. Productive. Millions of litres of water and terawatts of power saved per year. End users collectively saving €1.3 billion on water and electricity costs in 2020 (in comparison to them having standard dishwashers from 1990 before any eco targets were set) https://energy-efficient-products.ec.europa.eu/product-list/...

Not shown: water wasted from pre-washing dishes or having to run multiple cycles because the new eco-modes don't do the job properly. Also from manually washing dishes because the dishwasher is blocked for longer (and even longer once you add the extended drying time required due to the lower temperatures).

Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#517

Post by thih9 »

fransje26 wrote: post #450
dorfsmay wrote: post #131

Bosch! I ran into the same situation. I specifically told the salesperson I didn't want wifi, and they told me it's only if you want it to operate from your phone. I was done installing it and got rid of the packaging by the time I read that it needs to use their website for some functions. Beside the fact that I doubt the store would take it back after using it for a week or two and havi go no packaging, I had no ti…

I will high-jack this top-rated comment to link to a comment further below. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43469297 This comment has a link to [0], explaining, in plain text: However, perhaps inline with the German attitudes towards privacy, the BSH "HomeConnect" appliances have a no-cloud mode built into their app without any hacks required to disconnect them from the internet. They do require a one-time conne…

Cool. I’d still prefer a “no wifi” or even “no app” mode, and control everything via hardware buttons.

Hardware offline UX gives me hope that my data would not be sold or that I wouldn’t have to pay for an extra subscription or watch ads. Perhaps it’s correlation.

Still, “no cloud” is a step in the right direction; I’ll take it.

Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#518

Post by addandsubtract »

alt227 wrote: post #430
paradox460 wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The best friend you can make is an appliance repair man. Ask him which brands are good and which bad, and you'll rarely be steered awry

I asked the local appliance repair man which was the best brand for kitchen appliance reliability and he said Bosch.

Isn't the best appliance one that a repair man hasn't heard of?

Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#519

Post by amiga386 »

account42 wrote: post #516
amiga386 wrote: post #509

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> counter-productive The opposite, actually. Productive. Millions of litres of water and terawatts of power saved per year. End users collectively saving €1.3 billion on water and electricity costs in 2020 (in comparison to them having standard dishwashers from 1990 before any eco targets were set) https://energy-efficient-products.ec.europa.eu/product-list/...

Not shown: water wasted from pre-washing dishes or having to run multiple cycles because the new eco-modes don't do the job properly. Also from manually washing dishes because the dishwasher is blocked for longer (and even longer once you add the extended drying time required due to the lower temperatures).

Shown: the regulations actually set minimum cleaning and drying requirements, for precisely that reason - the equipment has to do the job properly.

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=uriserv:...

It's almost as if they already thought this through when making the regulation.

Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#520

Post by [deleted] »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #371
kube-system wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is a very good thing that Apple is tough about it, given the high value of the devices, and how people carry them around in public. I very much want my devices to be useless to thieves.

It's still not clear how this requires Apple to do anything or why it should have anything to do with any cloud service. The IMEI is burned into the phone. They should definitely make it hard to change the IMEI; but they do. If the phone is stolen then the IMEI gets reported as stolen and anyone who tries to activate the phone with a wireless carrier gets caught. Why does Apple or Google need to inconvenience people…

[deleted]
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