Earlier quoted context omitted.
There are no secret trade deals. What there are is closed-door trade negotiations , because it's impossible to get anything done if every time you open your mouth you have street protests from the industries you're considering removing protectionist measures from.
If negotiations are completely secret, by the time the deal is ready it's too late to debate on the large orientations of the deal. Sorry but a large treaty like this cannot be completely negotiated completely behind closed doors. Negotiators need to deal with it.
TTIP trade deal could be re-launched under a different name, say EU ministers
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Re: TTIP trade deal could be re-launched under a different name, say EU ministers
#62Earlier quoted context omitted.
I understand the reasoning, but if your requests trigger street protests then maybe it's time to reconsider those requests.
When America abolished slavery it didn't trigger a protest, it triggered a civil war. Sometimes what's right and what's popular aren't very similar. (but I'm not defending the TTIP)
Re: TTIP trade deal could be re-launched under a different name, say EU ministers
#63> European Union ministers today admitted that a giant EU-US trade deal is dead in its current form , with drastic change needed to salvage any hope of a deal going ahead. The devil, as always, is in the fine print - a cynic might read that to mean "TTIP has gotten such a bad reputation we would rather wait a few more years so the public forgets all about it, then try again." In fact, I am tempted to quote Lovecraft…
Offtopic, but does anyone else find Lovecraft too over-the-top? I know that many people like him, but it gets tiresome that everything is nameless, frightful, indescribable, hideous, hellish, monstrous, indescribable, etc. He's not very subtle at all with his descriptions, even a house that was previously established as super creepy gets an "abominable" when referring to it. I found him so over the top that I wanted…
Re: TTIP trade deal could be re-launched under a different name, say EU ministers
#64Earlier quoted context omitted.
If negotiations are completely secret, by the time the deal is ready it's too late to debate on the large orientations of the deal. Sorry but a large treaty like this cannot be completely negotiated completely behind closed doors. Negotiators need to deal with it.
One way to solve that would be to have a period in which politicians had to justify their plans, including the kinds of trade deals they would negotiate, to the electorate. Then we could all vote for the politician we preferred. We could call it an "election campaign".
This is why TTIP, no matter the content, is undemocratic. As is CETA.
Re: TTIP trade deal could be re-launched under a different name, say EU ministers
#65Re: TTIP trade deal could be re-launched under a different name, say EU ministers
#66Earlier quoted context omitted.
When America abolished slavery it didn't trigger a protest, it triggered a civil war. Sometimes what's right and what's popular aren't very similar. (but I'm not defending the TTIP)
(It was more about states rights, over federal rights. I don't think they really cared about slavery--unfortunately.)
It's something like saying my house actually burned down because it's made of wood, not because I let a kid play with matches.
Re: TTIP trade deal could be re-launched under a different name, say EU ministers
#67What really bothers me, as citizen of an european country, why is it possible to have secret deals? If I don't know about such deals how can I call my representative to oppose them? Or encourage them to take the deal if it's a good one. AFAIK, TTIP was leaked and that's the only way european citizens knew about it. Why is it legal? Because all I see is corporations trying to make a sweet deal with governments, and th…
There are no secret trade deals. What there are is closed-door trade negotiations , because it's impossible to get anything done if every time you open your mouth you have street protests from the industries you're considering removing protectionist measures from.
I was under the impression that most or all similar documents were only made available at a mature stage (eg after first official draft is ready, passed legal, translated etc).
Re: TTIP trade deal could be re-launched under a different name, say EU ministers
#68Earlier quoted context omitted.
When America abolished slavery it didn't trigger a protest, it triggered a civil war. Sometimes what's right and what's popular aren't very similar. (but I'm not defending the TTIP)
(It was more about states rights, over federal rights. I don't think they really cared about slavery--unfortunately.)
States' rights is a sham of an argument for the Civil War, and, too often, many other abhorrent practices today.
Re: TTIP trade deal could be re-launched under a different name, say EU ministers
#69Earlier quoted context omitted.
One way to solve that would be to have a period in which politicians had to justify their plans, including the kinds of trade deals they would negotiate, to the electorate. Then we could all vote for the politician we preferred. We could call it an "election campaign".
That's the big problem with TTIP: those who negotiated it (on the EU side at least) weren't elected representatives. In fact, elected representatives only very recently received very limited access to the negotiation documents themselves. In Germany, access was granted to members of parliament only January this year. Even so, they weren't even allowed to carry electronic devices or pen-and-paper notebooks. This is wh…
Re: TTIP trade deal could be re-launched under a different name, say EU ministers
#70It's also due to the US elections. The same thing happened last time. Negotiations will come back under a new name - and probably a slightly different scope and form, after the new administration has been designated.