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OpenAI tech gives Microsoft's Bing a boost in search battle with Google

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Re: OpenAI tech gives Microsoft's Bing a boost in search battle with Google

#581

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This comment is giving me “Look at me I’m so very smart” vibes.

I don't think I'm so smart, what I am saying is the GP is being extremely dismissive of other engineers here on Hackernews. Every post about LLMs is full of engineers stating how these have been useful to them. GP simply asserts that these are all "terrible engineers." Do we think that's REALLY the case or in fact LLMs can be very useful, especially when for example learning a new language or framework they haven't u…

some engineers != all engineers, that's classic unrepresentative sample. nice it helps you, hope you won't forget how to code in future, or you will be handicapped in case of openapi outage.

Re: OpenAI tech gives Microsoft's Bing a boost in search battle with Google

#582

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm of the opinion that it should be illegal for companies to offer the ability to buy ads for registered product names or trademarks. I'm of the opinion ads themselves should be illegal. Companies can "advertise" in a catalog I can choose to look at, but would no longer be allowed to invade my attention with their bullshit constantly. We've let marketers ruin too many good things as it is, lets just kill off the e…

That's too extreme. The economy would fall apart and a lot of people would lose their livelihoods. Think about second order effects. YouTubers. News stations. Newspapers. Film crews. Publishers. Writers. Marketers (who do more than just ads). All impacted. Many of the products we use everyday would no longer be viable. Even the premium tiers are supported by ads. Engineering salaries would be broadly impacted. The ec…

> Many of the products we use everyday would no longer be viable.

I think this is a bullshit myth the industry uses to justify itself. People are capable of paying for things, and to the extent they don't want to then maybe we really don't need whatever it was the ads were supporting.

I mean, a lot of the "content" exists purely as clickbait with a tiny bit of entertainment or information attached so it can product place or sell ads. Fuck it, we don't need it as a society.

>The economy is driven by hustle, sales, and ads.

Allowing jobs that make society worse for profit because "economy" is just the broken window fallacy. We are better off skipping the job part and just giving them money directly.

> We'd be less productive: less employed, less eager to buy, less eager to work.

We'd be doing bullshit jobs less. How is that a bad thing? Lets redirect what productivity we do feel like engaging in on making the world better instead of making the people at the top of the economic food chain wealthier and playing on people's insecurities to get them to pay for shit they don't need.

In my idea world, if I am interested in buying some new product or service I consult a catalog. Opt-in marketing, not bullshit carrot and stick marketing, and certainly not the kind of completely unsolicited bullshit that keeps us from having unfiltered email, answering our phones, or using the internet without an ad blocker.

Re: OpenAI tech gives Microsoft's Bing a boost in search battle with Google

#583

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I now only google when I need to sometimes verify that what chatgpt is suggesting isn't BS and I'm immediately reminded that google is barely better between SEO content farms, SEO SO scrappers, legacy information from 10 years ago. And that's with ads blocked. Between chatgpt+ for general guidelines and copilot for specific implementation details, programming feels very fun and alive. And I'm very skeptical to subscr…

just wait till chatGPT starts including ads in results.

not just 'including', but 'integrating'. A chill ran down me when I read this and realized the awful inevitable truth of it.

Re: OpenAI tech gives Microsoft's Bing a boost in search battle with Google

#584

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But maybe they are preparing a bombshell or something The release of Bard rules that out in my opinion. No one would unveil a product that's clearly worse than their competitor, damaging their brand, their share price, and the morale of the entire staff, if they had a better version ready to launch soon. The only way this could be true is if Google has more than one AI division and there's no comms between them. Whic…

Is bard that bad? I don't know, I can't try it because I'm not from the fucking USA or UK. And they do this for every new launch. Sorry, not available in your country. FFS, there is a world out there. Every fucking other company in the world doesn't bother with this shit. I was able to use OpenAI no problem. I was able to try Bing, no problem. Bard? Nope, I have no idea if it's good or bad. I can't trust what I read…

> Is bard that bad?

If Bard had been released to the public before ChatGPT, I probably would have been amazed by it (I know people love to point out errors, hallucinations, stuff AI gets wrong, but there's also the huge "Guys, you're having a fully natural, back and forth conversation with a computer. You can reference previous comments and ask it specifics about those comments. This was strictly the realm os SciFi until relatively recently.)

Compared to ChatGPT, especially the GPT-4 version, Bard is nowhere close. I asked it some programming questions, and ChatGPT can write the code and explain it to me. Bard basically gave me some StackOverflow summaries. Even in areas not related to programming, ChatGPT just feels "smarter", that is that it gives more generally correct, insightful responses, where Bard feels more like it is just scraping stuff it found on the Internet and summarizing it.

Note Bard is much more up-to-date than ChatGPT (I can ask it questions about current events), but even then it feels more "superficial". For example, I asked both (for ChatGPT was on GPT-3.5) "What was the outcome of the most recent US midterm elections?"

Bard answered "The Republicans won control of the House of Representatives, while the Democrats retained control of the Senate. The Republicans flipped 22 seats in the House, giving them a 222-213 majority. The Democrats flipped one seat in the Senate, giving them a 51-49 majority. The 2022 midterm elections were the first midterm elections under the presidency of Joe Biden. The results of the elections were seen as a repudiation of Biden's presidency, and they have given the Republicans a strong position to retake control of the White House in the 2024 presidential election."

I don't mean to get too much into political opinion on HN, but that last sentence just seems wrong to me. Even most Republican operatives were hand-wringing about Republicans underperforming expectations in the 2022 midterms. I asked Bard a follow-up, "Why do you think "The results of the elections were seen as a repudiation of Biden's presidency?" I recall even most Republican operatives thinking that Republicans underperformed expectations, for example there was no "red wave" that was widely expected."

Bard responded with what is essentially gobbledygook: "The results of the 2022 midterm elections were seen as a repudiation of Biden's presidency for a number of reasons. First, the Democrats lost control of the House, which is the chamber of Congress that is most closely tied to the president. Second, the Republicans flipped a number of seats in the Senate, which is the chamber of Congress that is more insulated from the president. Third, the Democrats underperformed expectations in a number of races, which suggests that voters were not happy with the direction of the country.

There are a number of reasons why the Republicans underperformed expectations. First, the Democrats were able to capitalize on a number of issues, such as inflation and the COVID-19 pandemic. Second, the Republicans were not able to unite their party around a single message. Third, the Democrats were able to mobilize their voters, while the Republicans were not.

The results of the 2022 midterm elections are a setback for the Democrats, but they are not a death knell for the party. The Democrats still have control of the Senate, and they will be able to block some of the Republican agenda. The Democrats will also be able to use the results of the elections as a rallying cry for their voters in the 2024 presidential election."

I mean, "the House, which is the chamber of Congress that is most closely tied to the president" - wut? "Second, the Republicans flipped a number of seats in the Senate, which is the chamber of Congress that is more insulated from the president." - but the previous response just told me the Dems "flipped a seat" to increase their margin. "First, the Democrats were able to capitalize on a number of issues, such as inflation and the COVID-19 pandemic." - the Democrats capitalized on inflation???

ChatGPT 3.5 answered "I'm sorry, but my training data only goes up until September 2021 and I do not have access to current events. However, I can tell you that the most recent US midterm elections were held in November 2018, and during that election, the Democrats won control of the House of Representatives, while the Republicans retained control of the Senate. This resulted in a divided Congress, with Democrats controlling one chamber and Republicans controlling the other. It's important to note that midterm elections are held every two years, so there will be another one in November 2022."

Re: OpenAI tech gives Microsoft's Bing a boost in search battle with Google

#585

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But maybe they are preparing a bombshell or something The release of Bard rules that out in my opinion. No one would unveil a product that's clearly worse than their competitor, damaging their brand, their share price, and the morale of the entire staff, if they had a better version ready to launch soon. The only way this could be true is if Google has more than one AI division and there's no comms between them. Whic…

Is bard that bad? I don't know, I can't try it because I'm not from the fucking USA or UK. And they do this for every new launch. Sorry, not available in your country. FFS, there is a world out there. Every fucking other company in the world doesn't bother with this shit. I was able to use OpenAI no problem. I was able to try Bing, no problem. Bard? Nope, I have no idea if it's good or bad. I can't trust what I read…

To be fair Microsoft does this a lot too. Gamepass is not officially available to most of the world for example - you need to set your account's address to a country where its supported and then you lose the Cloud streaming feature even if you are paying for it. Its more of a surprise that Bing/ChatGPT was available worldwide right from the get go.

Re: OpenAI tech gives Microsoft's Bing a boost in search battle with Google

#587

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is bard that bad? I don't know, I can't try it because I'm not from the fucking USA or UK. And they do this for every new launch. Sorry, not available in your country. FFS, there is a world out there. Every fucking other company in the world doesn't bother with this shit. I was able to use OpenAI no problem. I was able to try Bing, no problem. Bard? Nope, I have no idea if it's good or bad. I can't trust what I read…

> Is bard that bad? If Bard had been released to the public before ChatGPT, I probably would have been amazed by it (I know people love to point out errors, hallucinations, stuff AI gets wrong , but there's also the huge "Guys, you're having a fully natural, back and forth conversation with a computer . You can reference previous comments and ask it specifics about those comments. This was strictly the realm os SciFi…

It's hard to to tell how much of that is caused by the default system prompt setup that the two chat systems have.

You can easily cause chatgpt to radically change its style by prepending the right system prompt. Some people even published many many "jailbreak" prompts that undid the safety priming that openai's system prompt defines.

From what I read it does indeed seem that openai's experience is much more balanced; they generally seemed to have tuned things quite well and the competition is lagging behind.

However it's not clear how much of that is due to fundamental quality of the model or how things have been polished in the last step.

It may sound like an academic nitpick, but it's central to any discussions about whether Google has really been left behind and has lost the grip on AI.

They are not doing a great service to their own bottom line by blocking access to a public beta to so many billions of people

Re: OpenAI tech gives Microsoft's Bing a boost in search battle with Google

#588

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google can incorporate quality signals in near real time. Those signals include leaving and immediately returning to the SERP. So us discussing these particular results could have already influenced them.

This comment thread is now #6 and #7 for me

I've seen this before - I've complained on HN that google has no results for X, and within two hours google's first(and only result) was the very thread of me complaining about it.

Re: OpenAI tech gives Microsoft's Bing a boost in search battle with Google

#589

The rumour I keep hearing is that it's like the Hunger Games inside Google at the moment. Total chaos and infighting at all levels, investors are freaking out over AI and Bard's middling performance compared to OpenAI and blood is in the water. Sundar may be forced to resign and Larry/Sergei deployed to rescue the company.

Need a wartime CEO, right? https://a16z.com/2011/04/14/peacetime-ceo-wartime-ceo/ Although personally, I’m not seeing chatGPT bulldoze the world just yet. They need to monetize it, which means ads. Are they better at ads than the others? It’s not a given Is it ok to predict that, like so many things before, the noise of chatGPT will die out more quickly than we imagine?

They can monetize with their plugin (aka apps) ecosystem. Take 10% of each transaction.
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