Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#571

Post by mssundaram » Thu, Jun 03, 2021, 7:22 AM UTC

Solvitieg wrote: post #150

k-mcgrady wrote: post #60

"Cook wrapped up the memo by saying that he's looking forward to seeing employee faces. "I know I'm not alone in missing the hum of activity, the energy, creativity and collaboration of our in-person meetings and the sense of community we've all built," he wrote." CEO's all spout the same nonsense. The majority of people work because they need to earn money. They're not working to make a new 'family' or change the wo…

Considering that we spend most of our day doing this "work" thing, I find it much more tolerable to view my coworkers as close friends and my career as an opportunity. This is especially easy in such a privileged sector as tech where pay is excellent, office life is compelling, and work is challenging and exciting. I don't know how people survive day-to-day with a perspective like yours. I get that people can get ful…

Have you ever been fired from your family? For some that analogy has happened, but for most people it's an exception, but for a job it's a much more real possibility. I'm a mercenary at my job. No allegiance but to my interests, because the leadership and shareholders have the same perspective

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#572

Post by ls15 » Thu, Jun 03, 2021, 7:23 AM UTC

heavyset_go wrote: post #190

Nbox9 wrote: post #51

I work for another company that is going to do a partial return to office. I will be looking at options for companies that offer full in person office (or 90% in person office) after things settle down. I have worked full remote for a total of 5 years of my career, and I believe working in the office is a competitive advantage. * Overhearing hallway conversations (and joining them) helps spawn invocation. * I often d…

> I save money by spending less on food, drinks, and electricity. For those of us who have to commute, it's not exactly the norm to be saving money while commuting. Commutes are responsible for a 10% drop in hourly wages[1], and the median commute time results in spending 10 full days commuting a year. The average commuter in one of the largest metro areas in the country will spend over 13 full days commuting a year:…

Private transport is also one of the biggest sources of greenhouse gas emissions.

Reducing daily commute seems like a good way to improve our carbon footprint.

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20200317-climate-change-c...

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#573

Post by freyr » Thu, Jun 03, 2021, 7:23 AM UTC

NoblePublius wrote: post #253

We’ve been back in the office since September 2020 with masks. We are now a mask free workplace as of two days ago if you are vaccinated. Any delay to return to normalcy at this point is absurd.

One could argue that spending 2 hours a day in traffic or $1.75M+ for a modest house is more absurd.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#574

Post by bumbada » Thu, Jun 03, 2021, 7:24 AM UTC

rubicon33 wrote: post #240

Nbox9 wrote: post #51

I work for another company that is going to do a partial return to office. I will be looking at options for companies that offer full in person office (or 90% in person office) after things settle down. I have worked full remote for a total of 5 years of my career, and I believe working in the office is a competitive advantage. * Overhearing hallway conversations (and joining them) helps spawn invocation. * I often d…

This is what most of the newcomers to WFH don't understand: There is a big different between WFH for a few months where EVERYONE else is also WFH ... and WFH for YEARS where some, or most, of the others are in office. The latter is years upon years of feeling disconnected, left out, and sidelined. The vast majority of companies even if they allow remote are not remote first. Remote first involves actual structural an…

You are speaking about your personal experience. You never wanted to work remotely, you never prepared for it and as a result it has been a traumatic experience for you.

On the other hand there is people out there, like me, that have been improving and refining remote working skills from decades.

When I traveled to former Soviet Republics it shocked me how helpless old people felt doing the most basic things. As young people they were trained to delegate everything on the State. The State did a very bad job almost at everything but there was no alternative, so they never developed the skills .

When they were old,it is difficult to learn anything new and they had not the necessary skills to survive on their own and were nostalgic about communism.

That made me realize that most schools and Universities and jobs just train you to obey orders and do not leave space for resourcefulness and independence.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#575

Post by Bancakes » Thu, Jun 03, 2021, 7:25 AM UTC

gnicholas wrote: post #282

heavyset_go wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I save money by spending less on food, drinks, and electricity. For those of us who have to commute, it's not exactly the norm to be saving money while commuting. Commutes are responsible for a 10% drop in hourly wages[1], and the median commute time results in spending 10 full days commuting a year. The average commuter in one of the largest metro areas in the country will spend over 13 full days commuting a year:…

The food/drink part could be the most of it. A Google employee enjoying free food and drink could save $60/day versus buying prepared food ($10 for breakfast, $20 for lunch, and $30 for dinner). If you drink much coffee or other beverages, that could be another $15/day. If you weigh this against spending an extra hour or two commuting, then it looks like a lousy bargain. But if you are like many people, and ended up…

Since you're home, you're free to make whatever food you want, anytime, for the 2 hours daily commute.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#576

Post by sersi » Thu, Jun 03, 2021, 7:25 AM UTC

gfodor wrote: post #290

sersi wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The comments sections on these articles tend to receive a lot of projection from people who simply hate their jobs and view WFH as a partial antidote to that. I resent the implication that I like WFH because I hate my job. I love my job, I'm good at it and I'm a bit of a workaholic by most standards (but wouldn't if I didn't genuinely love it). However, over my career, I found that I'm much more productive when wor…

If a person says "a lot of people like X because they hate Y" they are not saying that if someone likes X it implies Y. When I catch myself inverting conditional probabilities into a frame that makes me feel attacked it usually means that I've got some other thing going on that has nothing to do with what the person said.

You are right, if one reads it very charitably but in my experience "a lot of people like X because they hate Y" is very often used as a writing device to make a point and denigrate X. In this case, no, it doesn't say that all people who work from home hate their jobs but it says that the probably of people working from home hating their jobs is higher without proof to further their argument. I've seen a lot of that on both sides of the fence in the WFH.

So, when Wework's CEO says that people who work from home are the least engaged, when I read in this thread that people who don't want to work from home must not like their family (paraphrasing), I take it to mean for what it is, an insult in order to push one's favoured view and I dislike this.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#577

Post by entropea » Thu, Jun 03, 2021, 7:26 AM UTC

Nbox9 wrote: post #51

I work for another company that is going to do a partial return to office. I will be looking at options for companies that offer full in person office (or 90% in person office) after things settle down. I have worked full remote for a total of 5 years of my career, and I believe working in the office is a competitive advantage. * Overhearing hallway conversations (and joining them) helps spawn invocation. * I often d…

I really like my current company and will be of the first in the office at least 3-4 times per week. I agree with your points, but also understand that it doesn't fit everyone's life.

My social interaction has pretty much always been online since a kid and most of my long term friendships and social interaction came from in-person work. I miss the people who genuinely made my day better on a consistent basis at work, and I get almost none of that remote. Being single through COVID has been hell.

I also have zero work/life separation. I enjoy the routine, the excercise, less distractions than being at home. I feel like I could absorb more and know a lot more of what was going on.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#578

Post by afinlayson » Thu, Jun 03, 2021, 7:29 AM UTC

It's funny how people who like remote worker expect everyone to commit to their lifestyle, like it's a religion. Some people will work better in the office others will work better at home. Not everyone is the same ... why haven't we figured this out yet

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#579

Post by bloqs » Thu, Jun 03, 2021, 7:29 AM UTC

Nbox9 wrote: post #51

I work for another company that is going to do a partial return to office. I will be looking at options for companies that offer full in person office (or 90% in person office) after things settle down. I have worked full remote for a total of 5 years of my career, and I believe working in the office is a competitive advantage. * Overhearing hallway conversations (and joining them) helps spawn invocation. * I often d…

1.Interesting, the vast majority of these are not work related for me. Maybe one a year is in some way useful

2. I would contest that with sufficient quality screen share this simply so marginal it's dismissable

3. This makes several assumptions about personality and socialising and isn't always the case. Forcing people to see each other does not create social closeness. Sustaining good friendships over instant message is very much the norm. I think occasional in person meetings or, more deliberate collaborative effort if fully remote can create this just fine.

4. Distractions in the office, drive bys, noise of neighbours and even digital distraction vs a small degree of self discipline (using one monitor, phone on dnd can help too) ... I dont buy this at all.

5. See above - if you have children then that is understandable, however I would wager that correct work/play time separation is whats needed here.

6. I can claim some of my electricity cost as work expenses and the food on my commute and at work is incredibly overpriced. I typically prepare food at home. Being at home more i'm now not restricted to whatever carries well in a tupperware.

7. Arguing that a routine needs to be made for you instead of creating your own isnt a valid reason. Self discipline.

8. Discipline and routine also addresses the last point, but I will concede its easier to manage.

To outline the competitive advantage FOR working at home. In addition to the above I gain:

Custom desk, my high quality office chair vastly superior to corporate stock, custom office space, custom lighting temperature and air flow.

Control of noise levels

Total control of distractions

I save 4 hours a day lost to transport being forced to listen to podcasts and have more meaningful work and play time as a result.

I save substantial money on transport

No social guidelines, I can have what I want on the radio/TV if I wish.

I can wear more comfortable clothes and save money on laundering work clothes

I can exercise more freely and easily

I can work in line with the ebb and flow of my conciousness and not when someone else demands it - and am subatantially more productive.

My deliveries no longer go missing

My home is tidier

I dont have to use a disgusting corporate bathroom

I dont get sick anymore

My carbon footprint is close to zero

My mental health has improved substantially

I think that mostly covers it

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#580

Post by bloqs » Thu, Jun 03, 2021, 7:31 AM UTC

tonyedgecombe wrote: post #549

foepys wrote: post #495

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please remember that not everybody here works for FAANG or similar companies.

None the less people do seem to make poor decisions when it comes to commuting.

This comment suggests you are from a generation where there was a choice