Tell HN: If You Are in Russia • Hacker News Board

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#541

Post by anovikov » Tue, Mar 01, 2022, 10:05 AM UTC

jdrc wrote: post #235

anovikov wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Russian here. This is not misinformation or anything. This is just because yes, vast majority of Russians from all walks of life are pure evil. Even those living in the Western countries for decades. I have deleted myself from all social networks 5 years ago and people keep sending me screenshots from Russian facebook groups in Cyprus and that makes me freak out. Nearly everyone is pro-Putin. Ridiculous posts get hun…

this is becoming a theme with immigrant communities, in a similar vein how german Turks are supportive of Erdogan. I'm sure those people are not evil, but this phenomenon is worthy of investigation.

It would be worthy of investigation if these people behaved in any way different from Russians in Russia. But they don't. My conclusion is that it has nothing to do with propaganda - to which those living abroad are naturally exposed less - but just because of what these people are.

Yes, after Soviet Union fell, we Russians found out that all we've been taught about capitalism was true: unemployment, dog-eat-dog competition, class divide and all that stuff. It's not at all a paradise we have imagined. It's time for you to see that all you've been told about Communism was true, too: McCarthy was an idiot, but he was right. There are no "good Russians" waiting to be liberated from "evil Putin". There are "evil Commies" who Putin wholly represents.

Stop trying to "fix" Russia. It is impossible. It has to be contained, made as weak and irrelevant as possible to present less danger.

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#542

Post by k__ » Tue, Mar 01, 2022, 10:05 AM UTC

Hard_Space wrote: post #519

It's a bit alarming that some HN posters are saying that Ukraine never applied to join NATO. That they did is the central seed of the John Mearsheimer lecture 'Why is Ukraine the West's Fault?' [1], which got about another 2m views in the last 48 hours. Mearsheimer provides a direct quote demonstrating NATO's resolve to eventually incorporate Ukraine, which was pledged at the Bucharest 2008 summit. Bush was also push…

Anyone still thinking this is about Ukraine joining NATO is completely delusionary.

Putin literally said, he doesn't think that Ukraine is a country.

This always was about Putin needing another win either for his reelection or before he dies.

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#543

Post by roca » Tue, Mar 01, 2022, 10:05 AM UTC

ysamjo wrote: post #391

ihateolives wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You do realize that only thing EU and US have done about Russia escalating situations all over the place (Crimea, North Caucasus, Georgia, South Ossetia, Chechnya, Dagestan etc) is talk, talk, talk. Has it helped? Nope. Russia seems to be immune to talking.

I would add that the unspecifity of the threat was what kept Putin going. Consider what would have happened if "The West" handed Putin a detailed list of the sanctions that are in effect now A WEEK AGO. Lower costs and lower risks. That's why far-sighted politics are so important.

He wouldn't have believed the list. Just like a lot of Europeans didn't believe he would invade Ukraine.

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#544

Post by ceilingcorner » Tue, Mar 01, 2022, 10:06 AM UTC

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #526

ceilingcorner wrote: post #502

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is really distressing, not only because it’s ethically wrong to blame groups of people for individual actions, but also because it’s pragmatically against the interests of the West. We gain nothing by escalating this.

"We" did not escalate this; Russia did by annexing Crimea in 2014 and invading Ukraine. They could have chosen not to do so and instead focus on building up good international relationships. What did they think they had to gain from annexing neighbouring territory? More control over the Black Sea I guess, but why do they want that control in the first place? Russia can de-escalate by withdrawing. The only way for 'th…

From Russia’s point of view, they had many reasons to annex Crimea. It wasn’t just a random act of aggression.

Having studied this situation a bit, my conclusion is that both sides are to blame, with Russia being considerably more culpable due to choosing the violent option. Geopolitics isn’t simple and thinking that one side is entirely to blame is just naive and falling for propaganda.

By escalation I’m referring to the giant effort to exclude Russia from everything, including liquor stores and name registrars.

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#545

Post by roca » Tue, Mar 01, 2022, 10:07 AM UTC

necovek wrote: post #440

ysamjo wrote: post #407

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the list of Putin's demands, what should the West has conceded on??

Not necessarily Putin's demands, but there's talk of Russia asking to join NATO way-back-when: not sure if those are trustworthy, but I am pretty confident Russia would have no fear of NATO if it was not sent off, and was instead part of it. Also, recognizing independence for Russian-controlled areas of Ukraine would have helped with the current situation too.

"Russia has no fear of NATO" => "Putin takes Baltic states".

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#546

Post by formerly_proven » Tue, Mar 01, 2022, 10:07 AM UTC

teekert wrote: post #180

This whole situation is so surreal and disappointing. I grew up on Star Trek and somehow I just though we had (almost) arrived in a post-war, federation-like world. We know things should be solved with words because otherwise there are only losers. It’s how we raise our kids. I just keep thinking about how Jean Luc is looking down on us from orbit, slowly shaking his head whispering “Savages.”

> I just though we had (almost) arrived in a post-war, federation-like world

15 years ago Russia was participating in NATO and even US-lead exercises like BALTOPS. Putin suggested to join NATO in the early 2000s.

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#547

Post by Ambolia » Tue, Mar 01, 2022, 10:07 AM UTC

adriancr wrote: post #537

Ambolia wrote: post #406

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Clintons selling Russia to oligarchs in the 90s and causing a drop in life-expectancy of 10 years in the male population

> The Clintons selling Russia to oligarchs in the 90s How did that happen?, Did they own Russia or something?

Their administration with the "help" of harvard helped to produce the economic "success" that was 90s russia:

https://www.thenation.com/article/archive/harvard-boys-do-ru...

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#548

Post by bvrmn » Tue, Mar 01, 2022, 10:07 AM UTC

sakopov wrote: post #472

The reason Russia has elevated tyrants to power for centuries is deep-rooted in Russian soul to the point where it's not even a problem. It's something that is inexplicably difficult to understand unless you actually experience the culture for a good portion of your life. There is a lot of literature out there about the "Russian Soul" and I really recommend reading it to understand how this happens. In my opinion it'…

There is no such thing like Russian soul. But Bolshevist legacy and Checkist persons in control. See how Korea was split and become completely different countries from the same people.

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#549

Post by JGM_io » Tue, Mar 01, 2022, 10:08 AM UTC

pydry wrote: post #282

ogogmad wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You think that talking to Hitler is going to stop a war?

Saying "Ukraine will remain neutral and will not join NATO" would have stopped this war. It's an unpopular fact but it's still true.

Also nato not expanding towards russian borders even after promising it wouldn't by james baker, 1990[1]

[1] https://ibb.co/xgqRWG3

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#550

Post by watwut » Tue, Mar 01, 2022, 10:08 AM UTC

teekert wrote: post #180

This whole situation is so surreal and disappointing. I grew up on Star Trek and somehow I just though we had (almost) arrived in a post-war, federation-like world. We know things should be solved with words because otherwise there are only losers. It’s how we raise our kids. I just keep thinking about how Jean Luc is looking down on us from orbit, slowly shaking his head whispering “Savages.”

> I just keep thinking about how Jean Luc is looking down on us from orbit, slowly shaking his head whispering “Savages.”

I think that issue there is that Star Trek is a fiction.