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Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

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Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#431

Post by darawk »

orloffm wrote: post #339
darawk wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't entirely disagree but I think a slightly better framing is: It's not their fault, but it is their responsibility. Putin is a problem for the world, and it's a problem that can only be properly solved by the Russian people. Unfortunately, that means whether they deserve it or not, they are the group to whom pressure needs to be applied.

I am a Russian citizen. How it is my responsibility? I never supported Putin and hate him as much as anyone. They destroyed Moscow over the last 20 years, gave up on Russians left in former ex-USSR countries, created a separate society of asian immigrants, muted all opposition. How am I responsible? Should I buy a tank of gazoline and go burn Kremlin? Then what? Is every european responsible for not stopping NATO in…

> How am I responsible? Should I buy a tank of gazoline and go burn Kremlin?

Honestly, yes. If that's what it takes. You're responsible not because it's your fault, but because you (collectively) are the ones in a position to do something about it.

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#432

Post by thejackgoode »

chupasaurus wrote: post #409
thejackgoode wrote: post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To take action to end it. We are in "unstoppable force vs immovable object" situation. Putin does not have an option to lose. We don't have an option to lose the country once again. These things historically are only resolved by genocide and mass population displacement. Alternative is removing a single person from power.

Nazi Germany wasn't stopped by any of those.

Nazi Germany did not have VPNs. Information is there, so far. It's a personal decision to look at it or not.

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#433

Post by kevin_thibedeau »

fabian2k wrote: post #161
godmode2019 wrote: post #155

I think its very sad normal Russian people are going to be targeted when European countries are still buying oil and gas from Russia 700million a day going straight to the war machine. Europeans pretend to care and sanction everything except for the oil and gas that is funding that war. There should always be a difference between government and people. All these sanctions are harming normal people, essentially econom…

It's simply not possible to change the infrastructure that fast. Gas is used for heating, that's not optional in winter. Europe needs to build more LNG terminals (which they decided to do) and order gas from other countries that have the ability to greatly increase their output. This all takes time, but in the long run Europe will stop being as dependen on Russian gas and oil as they are now, Putin made sure of that.

I'd bet heat pump manufacturers are ramping up for their biggest year ever.

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#434

Post by danachow »

pydry wrote: post #365
Cthulhu_ wrote: post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And then what? Everybody would be happy ever after? No, Russia wants a pro-Russia government in Ukraine, and they didn't like that Ukraine instead moved away from Russia and Russian influence via things like promoting the Ukranian language instead of Russian. It's a bullying tactic and infringes on a country's sovereignty.

Is peace not the highest priority? I dont want Ukraine to be pro Russian but I dont want Kyiv to be shelled more . I dont want a nuclear war more. It absolutely is a bullying tactic, but it's also the desperate act of a country that is trying to protect the integrity of its most exposed border from an explicitly hostile power (NATO).

> Is peace not the highest priority?

No it’s not. Not if being at peace means being subjugated by a despot.

You’re a fool.

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#435

Post by sensanaty »

jopsen wrote: post #361
ajuc wrote: post #215

Basically Russia becomes North Korea or Putin dies. It's sad, but honestly, Russians tolerated the situation for far too long and the externalities were paid by everybody around them.

Yeah, the wind is blowing that way.. But we still haven't stopped buying oil/gas. And if we did, China might buy it instead.

China buying their gas is a long-term effort, though, they can't just up and relocate gas headed west on a whim like that. The infrastructure isn't in place for it, and if they don't do it via pipelines, they'll have to do it via trucks which isn't exactly fast

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#436

Post by tut-urut-utut »

teekert wrote: post #180

This whole situation is so surreal and disappointing. I grew up on Star Trek and somehow I just though we had (almost) arrived in a post-war, federation-like world. We know things should be solved with words because otherwise there are only losers. It’s how we raise our kids. I just keep thinking about how Jean Luc is looking down on us from orbit, slowly shaking his head whispering “Savages.”

Star Trek fleet had actually excellent policies:

- "any contact to less developed civilizations is strictly forbidden".

- "do not interfere in any way and don't take a side in conflicts of sovereign civilizations".

Both of them were crucial. If we followed these principles, the world would be much happier and peaceful place.

What do we do instead? Bomb democracy into societies not yet ready for it, force trade agreements to detriment of less developed countries, incite and profit from wars that would either never happen or finish much earlier if we left those people alone.

If we were James T Kirk and Jan Luc Picard instead of Joe Biden and Vladimir Putin, we should not need to worry for the future of human species.

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#437

Post by skor »

thejackgoode wrote: post #266
freddealmeida wrote: post #222

This anti-Russian trope spreading is infuriating. If Apple and Google can stop their Pay services, of course everything else will be stopped. But that also means I don't want to be on those services either. It is too much power to give to Amazon, Microsoft and Google. I will actively move my own services to solutions that don't act like arms of the US government.

Every Russian passport holding person is responsible for this conflict. The sooner they understand this, the more country remaining they will have when this will end

don’t understand why comments like these are seen on hn,

is every american responsible for the countless deaths the US and their profitable war machine caused?

how about anyone living in [1]?

I safely bet the majority of people on this planet would prefer money spent on conflicts be invested in research, development, health and education.

[1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ongoing_armed_confli...

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#438

Post by hnov »

staskus wrote: post #345

As a person living in the Baltics, I agree with Western countries using their leverage (including big tech) to put as much pressure as possiblee on Russia. We’ve been sincerely holding back and crafting sanctions that would only affect Putin’s inner circle for the last 8 years but it didn’t work. Now that the ordinary Ukrainians need to withstand the horrors of the actual war, ordinary Russians need to withstand stro…

Maybe as a person living in the Baltics you need to endure the cold and not fund the Russian war machine through natural gas. An unfortunate reality really

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#439

Post by odiroot »

squarefoot wrote: post #302
kungito wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There have been multiple active wars in like 1/4 of the world the whole time since ww2 and all the time before that. The only thing different is that Ukraine is closer to EU than the rest of the countries.

Chechnya war also was very close and nobody cared since they were mostly Islamic, and the war in the former Yugoslavia happened just in the middle of Europe, but apparently many have already lost memory of it despite the atrocities committed. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Srebrenica_massacre

> Chechnya war also was very close and nobody cared since they were mostly Islamic

Maybe USA didn't care. I remember, as a child, my Polish parents being glued to the TV, watching the situation unfold in Chechnya.

As far as I know, my country accepted quite a few Chechen refugees. Dhokhar Dudayev was recognised as a hero in Poland. We named a landmark after him.

Re: Tell HN: If You Are in Russia

#440

Post by necovek »

ysamjo wrote: post #407
teekert wrote: post #386

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We talked, but what concessions did we make?

From the list of Putin's demands, what should the West has conceded on??

Not necessarily Putin's demands, but there's talk of Russia asking to join NATO way-back-when: not sure if those are trustworthy, but I am pretty confident Russia would have no fear of NATO if it was not sent off, and was instead part of it.

Also, recognizing independence for Russian-controlled areas of Ukraine would have helped with the current situation too.

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